LEADGUY and whoever is interested

[Marshall SL12301]

Well ... When I see these photo above .. remind me directly to old Jackson J-80C Pickups ... Stock pickup in Jackson or Charvel Guitars (Bridge Pickups) in 88's/89's until mid of 90's period... almost the same spec arround 13-14kohms, ceramic magnet, (by rumor.. it was originally designed by Seymour Duncan.. ..IMHO..) .

The Jackson/Charvel Pickups (import model) was built by GOTOH, almost exactly having silver baseplate like in the Photo, Slugs+Filister Screw Bobins, instead of Hex Screw on DMZ SD, having same width like TB's Spec out of duncan (or F-Space of DMZ PU's) ... and eBay sell them in very reasonable price in all out the time ..

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I dont understand what you are trying to say here? the custom and the charvel/jackson J-80 sound NOTHING alike?

[N3m0 7h3 Fi5h]

I dont understand what you are trying to say here? the custom and the charvel/jackson J-80 sound NOTHING alike?

Sorry .. that was just an opinion :
1. That Photo remind me very close to My "Gotoh Version" of Jackson J-80C
2. Described Jackson J-80C spec is very close to SD Custom ..
3. But.. absolutely No idea.. J-80C compare to SD Custom Tone, since I never have any SD Custom ..
4. Overall .. just an input, maybe that cheap Jackson J-80C having similarity tone with Custom..
.

[dirtycooter]

This would explain the pole pieces and paf look for sure. I would have to say this theory, considering for instance ralle's awesome club boot tones he is getting with the dsd, is most likely a sure bet here. It would be the first time this whole mystery could really make perfect sense. This solves the pole piece dilemma, and Eds visit to Duncan back then. He had to have an idea what he was after to go there to Seymour-this would be the best reason. "Wind this thing on different bobbins would ya?"

How does the SH5 clean up??? And is it better on the squeal factor feed
back issue?
also if you think about it Ed said he used a destroyer on the first record as well in places and maybe he just said that. Did anyone ever actually SEE him and back up this claim?? All i ever seen was Ed said it in an interview. Maybe this was another turd thrown out to throw people off. Super 70 is nothin like a dsd or sh as far as drive goes then. It was more alot like a paf in all the clips posted here back awhile ago. OR.........he had seymour make a few to shove in all the guitars he liked or had-different colors etc, cream bobbins.......... Could be Ed tried to rewind the dsd onto a gutted paf bobbin and had it all f'd up so he thought I'll have someone that knows what they are doin do it. He definitly was secretive back then and tryin to be one up on everyone he could. Come on you know? How many hex pole piece pickups were around back then?
It would be the perfect idea and plan for the smoke screen. I think I can see things possibley makin some sense now that we have a specific motive.

[Ted B]

This solves the pole piece dilemma, and Eds visit to Duncan back then. He had to have an idea what he was after to go there to Seymour-this would be the best reason. "Wind this thing on different bobbins would ya?"

The saga probably originates when Ed lifts a PAF out of his original early '60s ES-335 (the one he 'ruined'). FWIW, PAFs after early '60 are double black, so that fits. He probably screws it up royally with his rewinding experiments (as well as a couple of DSDs and MMs), seeks Seymour's help in fixing it, and the two talk about what Ed wants out of it. Ed ends up with something like what would later become a Duncan Custom, and records VH1 with it. Sometime shortly thereafter, he becomes dissatisfied (imagine that), and goes back to Seymour, where the old PAF pickup is rewound again (or maybe not) but definitely gets a different magnet (A2). This is partly responsible for the change in Ed's sound. Realizing that Ed is fast becoming a star, Seymour tries to make a buck on his name without permission (SH-5), and the relationship is severed.

Years later, Seymour again capitalizes on the situation, knowing there is a large contingent that thinks Ed's early sound is canned inside a magic pickup. The Duncan Custom is the closest offering to the VH1 pickup, but it already exists. To get around this problem, Seymour releases a later version of what Ed used (or an interpretation of it), names it the "E.V.H.", then later the "'78", and jacks up the price by $100 over a Duncan Custom for no material reason. And while this represents something Ed probably used for at least a period of time, it isn't the VH1 pickup.

This theory is probably as realistic as any. It seems that both Ed and Seymour may be chronologically challenged, and Ed likewise seems rarely ever happy with something for very long before he wants to change it.

[chrisom]

My Duncan Custom in 1985 didn't sound Eddie Van Halen; It sounded like Vivian Campbell on Dio's "Last In Line" album, who said in the January 1985 Guitar World magazine he used a Duncan Custom at the time.

One can argue "Oh, it must be something in your rig that made it sound different than Eddie" but them why did it sound EXACTLY like Vivian? You can't really argue the point from both sides. Besides- On 1984, Eddie used a Flying V on "Hot For Teacher" but it still sounded like Eddie with it's stock Gibson pickups- most likely PAF's...

But everybody go out and buy a SD Custom and see for yourselves. Uncle Seymour will thank you for it.

[Ted B]

The engineering of 1984 was significantly different than the earlier records, so that muddies the picture somewhat.

As far as the sound of a Duncan Custom, some of our cork-sniffing gearheads with very VH1 sounding rigs would perhaps be best to comment as to how it fares. After all, I've played the very same pickups they're using over the years, and I sounded closer to V. Campbell, and not much like VH1.

According to Duncan (F. Falbo), the pickup presently in Frankenstrat has been in there for many years, and is something that Seymour made (although that can't be stated publicly). That pickup is reported to be ~14k (43awg) and A2. What is a Duncan Custom? 14.1k (43awg) and ceramic. Is that a coincidence? It raises the possibility that Ed's old PAF was rewound by Seymour just once (the origin of the SH-5), and at some point, Ed swapped out the ceramic mag in favor of an A2, and it's been that way ever since. This certainly explains quite a lot, from Ed's comments in interviews to changes in his early sound.

[Marshall SL12301]

TED i believe the ONLY reason the original custom had a mag swap was because of the floyd rose. think about it a 13K pup with a ceramic vs the same pup only with a alnico II in a guitar with a floyd,which will be browner and warmer? LOL!

[Marshall SL12301]

But everybody go out and buy a SD Custom and see for yourselves. Uncle Seymour will thank you for it.

Guess i am fortunate i already own a old 79 custom and i agree wiith ted on his points about it
and FWIW my 79 custom sounds NOTHING LIKE viv campbell and i seriously doubt your would have either if you had it in a
ash super strat plugged into a surh SL68

[frankfalbo]

The Duncan Custom is the closest offering to the VH1 pickup, but it already exists. To get around this problem, Seymour releases a later version of what Ed used, names it the "E.V.H.", then later the "'78", and jacks up the price by $100 over a Duncan Custom for no material reason.

The Duncan Custom has nothing in common with the Custom Shop 78. The Custom, Custom Custom, and Custom 5 are all around 14kDCR, the '78 is around 9kDCR. No resemblance at all. The wire gauge, insulation type, turn count, etc are all different. And of course the Custom is Ceramic and the 78 is Alnico II.

If we assume you meant "Custom Custom" then yes that is Alnico II, and it's the closest production pickup to the Frankenstein replica pickup. Please remember some of the information surrounding the Frankenstein replica pickup is confidential under contracts with EVH and/or Fender. In many forums over the years I've said what I can. None of it is a smoke-screen, we're not saying anything that is false, but some things we simply can not say. We literally can only say that the '78 is a pickup we made for "a certain artist" back in 1978, and we can't tell you if-or when-any artist used it. From that, many boutique pickup makers have released various overwound P.A.F. types and used terms like "brown sound" and names that include VEH, VHot, VHPAF, VHII, etc.

The IM1 is a totally different pickup than the '78. The only reason that exists is because we have an agreement with EVH that we can ONLY produce Frankenstein replicas for EVH/Fender. So if someone calls and asks what we can make that will get them the closest sound to the Frankenstein pickup, we recommend they buy that pickup from the EVH brand. If they say they don't want to for some reason, the IM1 is the closest thing we have. I believe it uses a specially calibrated Alnico 5 magnet, not A2.

[Ted B]

TED i believe the ONLY reason the original custom had a mag swap was because of the floyd rose. think about it a 13K pup with a ceramic vs the same pup only with a alnico II in a guitar with a floyd,which will be browner and warmer? LOL!

That may very well be true. All this debate, and the truth may very well be that Frankenstrat's old PAF was rewound to what would eventually become a Duncan Custom for VH1, then later became more or less what we know as a Duncan Custom Custom with the magnet swap (to compensate for the Floyd), and remains that way today.

This fits as well or better as anything I've seen.

[MrBeasty]

Since we are speculating ... It seems (to me) more likely that Ed went to Seymour with his PAF and said "Make this more like a Super Distortion!". Seymour to made him something of a "best of both worlds": He wound a Super Distortion on a PAF body and to off-set the harshness of the DSD, kept the A2 magnet.

Seems like a simple enough scenario and the Frankenstein PAF delivers, IMHO.

Now, Ed was clearly a repeat customer for Seymour Duncan. We have a '78 model (the year VH1 was recorded), we have the SH-5 (with ceramic magnet) and now the Frankenstein (with asymmetrical bobbins and a A2 magnet). I admit that the chronology is unclear!

TED i believe the ONLY reason the original custom had a mag swap was because of the floyd rose. think about it a 13K pup with a ceramic vs the same pup only with a alnico II in a guitar with a floyd,which will be browner and warmer? LOL!

That may very well be true. All this debate, and the truth may very well be that Frankenstrat's old PAF was rewound to what would eventually become a Duncan Custom for VH1, then later became more or less what we know as a Duncan Custom Custom with the magnet swap (to compensate for the Floyd), and remains that way today.

This fits as well or better as anything I've seen.

My recollection of the Custom Custom was that it was a later attempt at an EVH pick-up. Either in the mid-80s (Kramer 5150 guitar arear) or early '90s (pre-EBMM).
Ed never liked the pick-up and ended-up going to DiMarzio to create what is in the EBMM guitars to this day.
The Custom Custom was either intended for the Steinberger signature guitar and/or for the EBMM.

[Marshall SL12301]

the custom-custom was out before ed went to dimarzio so it was before FUCK, i hear it on OU812 and 5150 and maybe even 1984. we know that after eddie went with the flyd rose he went about trying to tame the brittle tone it got(he went to boogie bodies and had a 2-1/2" strat body made of mahogany for this reason to try) Well that body was short lived and i think the A2 pu's came into after that. Think of the things you would have done? I knw myself think like eddie and i am sure many here do as well when it comes to gear.

[Marshall SL12301]

Since we are speculating ... It seems (to me) more likely that Ed went to Seymour with his PAF and said "Make this more like a Super Distortion!". Seymour to made him something of a "best of both worlds": He wound a Super Distortion on a PAF body and to off-set the harshness of the DSD, kept the A2 magnet.
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But actually the duncan custom is not harsh at all for a ceramic pup and will clean up better than the dsd and CC so who knows?

[Marshall SL12301]

Seymour uses a small ceramic magnet for the Duncan Custom SH-5 vs. the larger magnet thats used for the Dimarzio Super Distortion.Thats the reason why the Custom is not harsh sounding.

cool! I actually dont really care iF eddie used it or not,it is my go to pup for all things dutch as well as my own tones, its just a great overwound PAF tone

[chrisom]

Plus, it gets that great elusive 1985 Vivian Campbell tone from the Dio "Last In Line" album...