ITO Tones rockstah posted

[cary chilton]

Good Guest, could you spectrum analyze Dave Friedman's clip of Ed's studio raw mono track ? I am curious if it is similar pre-production or not.

Are you talking about the RWTD clips celestian /JBL or is there another ITO ?

Yes!

[leadguy]

I can't see any real need to mod the MXR, placebo effect?

The 1.25kHz spike is not really in the Spectrum analysis to any great lasting extent and other frequencies are just as important.

Just turn up the 800Hz and you will get a sort of cocked wah effect.


http://www.maxonfx.com/Reissue_GE601.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The GE601 Graphic Equalizer covers six carefully selected frequency bands (100 Hz, 200 Hz, 400 Hz, 800 Hz, 1.6 KHz, and 3.2 KHz) over a five octave range with 12 dB of cut/boost per band. The GE601 also offers a master output Level control with 12 dB of cut/boost. With careful use of these controls, the GE601 can be used to fine tune your sound in a variety of extremely useful ways, a few of which are detailed below.

Pickup Simulator (humbucker to single coil) By cutting 200 Hz, 400 Hz, and 800 Hz and then boosting 100 Hz and 1.6 KHz, the GE601 allows a humbucker to simulate the sharp sound of a single coil.

Pickup Simulator (passive Bass to active Bass) By cutting 200 Hz and slightly boosting 100 Hz and 1.6 KHz, the GE601 can give a passive Bass the clarity and punch of an active instrument.

Pickup Simulator (single coil to piezo) By cutting 200 Hz, 400 Hz, and 800 Hz and boosting 100 Hz, 1.6 KHz and 3.2 KHz, the GE601 allows a single coil electric to simulate the bright, chiming sound of an acoustic guitar with piezo pickup.

Half-cocked Wah (audio demo) By creating a signal peak at 800 Hz, the GE601 can emulate the tone of a wah pedal with the treadle set half-way forward. This setting is also ideal for solo boosts.

Clean Booster - By leaving all frequency bands flat and boosting the Level control to taste, the GE601 can function as a clean booster for solos or to overdrive an amplifier's input.

With a little experimentation, the Maxon GE601 can become an essential tool to maximize the tonal options of your guitar rig.

[Good Guest]

Good Guest, could you spectrum analyze Dave Friedman's clip of Ed's studio raw mono track ? I am curious if it is similar pre-production or not.

Are you talking about the RWTD clips celestian /JBL or is there another ITO ?

Yes!

I'll pick up a few places to snip and spectrum analyze....spectruming the whole piece or songs is kind of futile as your looking at virtually everything compounding on itself and no real detail.. sure you can point and say 'Look there is a spike " but it doesn't really tell you anything.... or you can look at the whole thing and say .."Look the speaker cab rolls off at 5 khz"..

So I'll look at that 'D" chord for starters and see what we got going on there.....you see this why the ITO experiment was so successful..because there were actually a couple of guitarists whom I respect that can say " that is the sting..right there ..right now"... So yes point me to the essemce of RWTD..

This may take a while as it looks like someone is trying to hack into my account ..anyone else getting this message when logging on and having to go thru "extra security"..

[leadguy]

Too many concurrent threads to keep track of so this was a wrong post.

[dazzlindino]

I can't see any real need to mod the MXR, placebo effect?

The 1.25kHz spike is not really in the Spectrum analysis to any great lasting extent and other frequencies are just as important.

Just turn up the 800Hz and you will get a sort of cocked wah effect.


http://www.maxonfx.com/Reissue_GE601.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The GE601 Graphic Equalizer covers six carefully selected frequency bands (100 Hz, 200 Hz, 400 Hz, 800 Hz, 1.6 KHz, and 3.2 KHz) over a five octave range with 12 dB of cut/boost per band. The GE601 also offers a master output Level control with 12 dB of cut/boost. With careful use of these controls, the GE601 can be used to fine tune your sound in a variety of extremely useful ways, a few of which are detailed below.

Pickup Simulator (humbucker to single coil) By cutting 200 Hz, 400 Hz, and 800 Hz and then boosting 100 Hz and 1.6 KHz, the GE601 allows a humbucker to simulate the sharp sound of a single coil.

Pickup Simulator (passive Bass to active Bass) By cutting 200 Hz and slightly boosting 100 Hz and 1.6 KHz, the GE601 can give a passive Bass the clarity and punch of an active instrument.

Pickup Simulator (single coil to piezo) By cutting 200 Hz, 400 Hz, and 800 Hz and boosting 100 Hz, 1.6 KHz and 3.2 KHz, the GE601 allows a single coil electric to simulate the bright, chiming sound of an acoustic guitar with piezo pickup.

Half-cocked Wah (audio demo) By creating a signal peak at 800 Hz, the GE601 can emulate the tone of a wah pedal with the treadle set half-way forward. This setting is also ideal for solo boosts.

Clean Booster - By leaving all frequency bands flat and boosting the Level control to taste, the GE601 can function as a clean booster for solos or to overdrive an amplifier's input.

With a little experimentation, the Maxon GE601 can become an essential tool to maximize the tonal options of your guitar rig.

It is not placebo....this works...its unfortunate that you are not able to try it...because you would hear it...
as far as not seeing that spike in eruption, where does ed play the 5th fret c/e notes in unison like he does in ITO?
anyhoo.....I have 2 pedals and went back and forth a cpl of times, and the modded pedal wins......
adds a lively crackle to the tone, very musical......
Good day and happy new years to ya!

[leadguy]

I can try it.

A boost at 1.25kHz or 800Hz is not going to be magical.

You can buy EQ's with all different frequency bands.

I've been through a 1.25kHz boost many times and so have thousands of other guitarists, but so what.

Some might prefer a 1.25kHz boost and some might prefer a 800Hz boost and some might prefer no boost.

[dazzlindino]

It might have something to do with the 800 freq. now not being eqed' and adding in the 1.2...
dont know, maybe you guys could tell me...but it does something.....

[Good Guest]

Here you go Cary...our first little peak at RWTD...Top Celestian ...Bottom JBL ...so it looks like they both have a common frequency that's boosted...looks like the 800hz and a 1.8Khz....will have to some more snip and peaks and see if they creep up elsewhere in the clip...

RWTDCeDchordFS.jpg (58.93 KiB) Viewed 5003 times

RWTDJbDchordSFS.jpg (57.76 KiB) Viewed 5003 times

[leadguy]

I think the Celestion and JBL tracks are likely to be 2 different mic positions on the same Celestion speaker.

[Good Guest]

Don't be misled ..not all eq's are the same ...Just because one eq offers a boost at a certain freq. doesn't mean another with same freq. will sound the same.

Most if not all eq's have differant ways of dealing with the input and output signal which drastically can affect the tone...some have input buffers , some don't ..some have input tone shaping circuits ,,,some don't, some have filters at the output ...some don't ..The list goes on, on, on, on and on....

The mxr 6 band has enough tone shaping changes to make it very unique.

[rgalpin]

isn't there also a certain amount of phase shifting going on in most EQ circuits? i've always thought that had something to do with a slight time delay involved in running the various frequencies through filters or not - so that certain peaks get moved around ever so slightly - making it so that certain frequencies "arrive" at the preamp a "nano-second" later depedning on if they are boost or cut. (not REAL nano-second. just an expression )

this effect is more apparent on some units than others. no? or did i read that in a Dr. Suess book?

[Good Guest]

isn't there also a certain amount of phase shifting going on in most EQ circuits? i've always thought that had something to do with a slight time delay involved in running the various frequencies through filters or not - so that certain peaks get moved around ever so slightly - making it so that certain frequencies "arrive" at the preamp a "nano-second" later depedning on if they are boost or cut. (not REAL nano-second. just an expression )

this effect is more apparent on some units than others. no? or did i read that in a Dr. Suess book?

Yep, true ....Here is a link that really gets into it.

http://www.soundfirst.com/EQ_Phase.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your right the phase delays can add up and in some cases up to a full second

[Good Guest]

The Boss GE-10 has a 1k slider..That is where I had it boosted due to some Eddies GE-10 pics....I dimed it now just to mess withthings...it sounds pretty cool...still...is that other .2 that important? If so...then maybe modded the GE-10 is in order.

The mxr's are so plentiful..they would be the logical choice , but here is the nitty gritty on the ge 10....they have 2 resistors in parallel to make an odd ball value for accuracy (52K)...and it's an accurate 1Khz on the nose...by either placing a 100k in parallel with the 68K and 220K combo you will achieve the 1.2 khz..or you can replace the 2 resistors witha 33k and achieve 1.2Khz....unlike the mxr you don't have to remove too much but the hard part is accessing the solder side ...that's about it.

HRSMGE101.jpg (17.47 KiB) Viewed 4914 times

HRSMGE102.jpg (24.33 KiB) Viewed 4914 times

HRSMGE103.jpg (225.91 KiB) Viewed 4914 times

[Star*Guitar]

You are such a valuable resource Good Guest. I am so glad you weren't perminently banned. Thank you!!!

[cary chilton]

Thanks! I think this is VERY important to examine the Celestion spectrum map, as it IS Ed true tone PRE-production! Besides 800 and 1.8kHz can you get specific in your spec. analyzer plug, on the lows, too?

Actually it looks more like:
9-10dB boost @ 780hZ,
8-8.5 dB boost @ 1.7kHz

Also:
7.5 dB boost @ 1.4kHz
5dB boost @ 1.1 khZ
4dB boost @ 1.3hKz
7dB boost @ 700 hZ
4.35 dB boost @ 580
5 dB boost @650

NOTE: NO 500hz and NO 1000hZ!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think this is POSSIBLE with the amp itself, so this clip is undoubtedly filtered ( EQ cuts at 500 and 1000 hZ) 500hz is the cardboard boxy tone and 1000 can sound like a swimming pool outdoor speaker horn. Most mixing engineers and recordists, are aware that these are well-known trouble frequencies for the guitars


9-10dB @ 400hZ
9-9.5dB @ 360hZ
9-10db @ 320hZ

Does you program has more specifics?

Here you go Cary...our first little peak at RWTD...Top Celestian ...Bottom JBL ...so it looks like they both have a common frequency that's boosted...looks like the 800hz and a 1.8Khz....will have to some more snip and peaks and see if they creep up elsewhere in the clip...

RWTDCeDchordFS.jpg

RWTDJbDchordSFS.jpg