Help with Greenback setup...

[stef]

14.5 is close to 16 and that's what I meant. Measuring at the end of a speaker cable it's even closer to 16, if I remembered correctly

Uh, ok. That's not how it's worked for me, but what the hell do I know, right?

Scumback Speakers, I have to disappoint you -rewiring the cab and measuring the resistance is not a rocket science and there's no reason for us to play this "who's a bigger smartass" game you've started..
I'd like to belive we both have better and smarter things to do

[Scumback Speakers]

Granted it's not rocket science, stef. But you don't measure the resistance of a cab's speakers with a speaker cable attached to the cab. You test it at the jack with a multimeter, and typically it's in the range I stated. Now I'm only basing this on the experiences I've had, your results may be different. But the manner in which you measure the ohms resistance is incorrect as cable gauge/wire/etc will come into play, as well as what the temperature is in the room/etc.

But telling the OP to rewire his cab, and then giving out incorrect ohm readings based on improper multimeter techniques isn't the right thing to do, either.

As for the comment about who's the bigger smart ass game, I guess you were the only player in that game, I was being serious in my replies. If you've taken offense, not my intention.

I was trying to lighten the mood, you've obviously taken it seriously for some reason.

[stef]

Granted it's not rocket science, stef. But you don't measure the resistance of a cab's speakers with a speaker cable attached to the cab. You test it at the jack with a multimeter, and typically it's in the range I stated. Now I'm only basing this on the experiences I've had, your results may be different. But the manner in which you measure the ohms resistance is incorrect as cable gauge/wire/etc will come into play, as well as what the temperature is in the room/etc.

But telling the OP to rewire his cab, and then giving out incorrect ohm readings based on improper multimeter techniques isn't the right thing to do, either.

As for the comment about who's the bigger smart ass game, I guess you were the only player in that game, I was being serious in my replies. If you've taken offense, not my intention.

I was trying to lighten the mood, you've obviously taken it seriously for some reason.

I think our discussion here is not a serious one - and I'm not taking it seriously, trust me (I'm lightening the mood here too...)
First thing -which incorrect ohms reading you keep talking about here Could you read my post more carefully- I wrote CLOSE to 16ohm. I also stand by my advise to rewire his cab s/p since GB's were always wired that way and I learned that from you. You should have told him that too.
Second - When I was rewiring my cab I did measure it at the jack of course (again not a rocket cab jack scienece) and then (afterwards) checked it again at the speaker cable's jack just to make sure before turning the head on.
In the end my nuclear rocket rewired scientific 14.4999786314$%ohm cab sounds really good and I just wanted to share that and help.

[Scumback Speakers]

Celestions were all over the map on ohm readings. I just measured three 16 ohm Scumnicos here and they range from 13.9 to 14.1 and 8 ohm models come in around 6.9-7.1, so there's always a drop in the ohm reading/rating.

One of the problems with rewiring the stereo jack plate setup is that you can fuck it up easily (found that out the hard way!), so that's why I don't recommend rewiring it as it's just too fragile, since it's got PCB mounted jacks, not regular ones. Replacing it would need a plate, etc, so while that switch isn't optimal, the OP needed it's stereo capabilities, or so it seemed from his post.

Where those are concerned now all I recommend is replacing the thin 22 guage wire with 16 gauge as it will improve the tone. Larger than that and you can't get the push on connector to support the wire and it could (once again) damage the PCB solder flow on that stereo switch.

If he was going to run only in one ohm setting, then for sure it makes sense to rewire/re-jack the whole cab.

I've actually got 16 ohm Celestions that read 11.2, so there's another reason you want to be careful with what you think the reading should be. As speakers age, the coils get worn, and their original readings go out the door, or way off, so there's no hard/set/fast rule on ohm readings if speakers aren't new. And of course, if they're new and defective, POOF! LOL

Sorry to be so persnicketty but it's been a stressful week what with the house deal, and getting ready to move, so I probably came down harder on you than I meant to, without really meaning to come down on you. Sorry!

[Peeps]

You know, I was wondering why the wire is so thin. all the talk about cabs and speakers.........then when I open it up, there's these thin ass wires. think i will get some 16 g wire. what type should i use, any suggestions?

another thing i would like to do, is make a swithch on the back panel to move the speakers from straight up and down to an X pattern, so the sound won't be so one sided in the A/B setup.....what do you think of this?

[stef]

I'm sorry for the tension in this thread too

I've just checked my cab (it's a rewired 425B) with a multimeter again.. it shows exactly 14.4 on the speaker cable jack - I don't know how to read it from the jack without opening the back and there are so many screws so the cable comes in handy..
That stupid pcb is indeed a piece of shit - mine still works but I think I'm going to pull it out soon and replace it with a standard jack...and all those thin wires inside. I gig and move the cab almost every weekend and that stupid pcb will brake sooner or later...maybe it's not a good advice to mess with those pcb jacks after all

[Scumback Speakers]

I'll tell you what I did, you can go from there.

1) I replace all the thin wire with 16 guage copper stranded zip wire. This is also known as automotive zip wire or lamp cord. Any decent hardware or electronics store has it for 50-60 cents per foot, and even Home Depot's electrical department, although they sell it in 10 foot lengths for $8.00. Get the red & black wire so you don't have to figure out what's positive and negative. If anyone asks me which I use on which terminal, you've failed the common sense test! You'll need 8 feet total.

2) When there's a stereo jack involved with the slider switch, I remove the push on terminals that stick up out of the solder bath flow (that establishes the circuit) and solder directly to the holes left by the push on terminals, and VERY CAREFULLY join the solder bath to the 16 guage wires. I don't think that thin PCB board will support anything bigger, so I wouldn't advise trying it. Then you don't have to worry about it coming apart while moving or playing gigs. I did this to a couple of my demo cabs, and no issues after 3-4 years.

3) I avoid any switching as much as possible in cabs. They get handled roughly, that's bad on PCB boards and switches. My general rule is to go with a mono jack, with the proper wiring. If you need a stereo cab, go back to #1 and #2 to stabilize this situation.

4) I would avoid the switch to doing the X pattern. Less is more in the tone department. Once you introduce more wires/switching/etc. things start to break/go south, then you're sitting at your gig with a multimeter and a soldering gun going "Fuck!"

5) The only way you can read the jack on the cab is to have the 16 screws removed to get to the jack, so you're right on that one, stef.

6) Bigger wire means more bottom end/low mids. 16 gauge is the minimum I recommend in a 4x12, 14 gauge if you're going for the bonus tone, but it's more difficult to solder, and it's also hard on the push on connectors. Tested that to destruction as well. There's a very MINUTE difference in tone between 14 & 16 gauge in my tests.

And now, I'm having a cocktail. I'm moving (or starting) at the end of next week since our house deal FINALLY got approved, and I have contractors to hire for soundproofing/electrical/bathroom installs, etc.

Look for the Scumback demo cab/speakers sale to start soon. Good night!

[BaronGreenback]

i always thought 18 awg was the wire to go with? ive just bought a load of it

so is 16 going to be better than 18 or is there no significant difference?

[fillmore nyc]

i always thought 18 awg was the wire to go with? ive just bought a load of it

so is 16 going to be better than 18 or is there no significant difference?

As opposed to the bullshit story that most women try to sell you, bigger IS better, my friend!!


If Jim jumps back in here, he might tell you about the difference between 18 gauge and 16 or 14 gauge. I know there IS a difference, though.
16 and 14 gauge seem to be the accepted standard.

I actually use 12 gauge in my cabs if Im gonna rewire them, but Im SURE thats overkill. The wire and connectors are available in Advance Auto Parts, so I figure if Im gonna do it, might as well go for it.

[Scumback Speakers]

i always thought 18 awg was the wire to go with? ive just bought a load of it

so is 16 going to be better than 18 or is there no significant difference?

18 gauge is the absolute minimum, and I would only use that for combo cabs, 2 speakers at most.

IME 16 gauge delivers more signal, 14 just a tiny bit more, but it's a very small difference.

The bigger the wire, obviously the bigger the signal, more heat it can typically handle. I use 14 gauge for those who want it all. I found no tone difference between 14 going up to 12 or 10.

But after having a few old cabs (over 70 at this point) go through my hands, it seems that wire was not standardized at Marshall in the cabs, either. I've found what is the same thickness as current 16 gauge in 60's Marshall cabs, and I've found the thinner 18 guage, too.

What I based my wire specs on was my old 1969 1982B G12H30 loaded straight cab, which had the thicker wire from the factory. Perhaps Marshall used thinner wire on G12M's, thicker wire on G12H30's, but I had a 70 slant with G12M T1511's that had the thicker wire, not the thinner wire.

The problem with Marshall was they had supply issues like any other business, and spec changes/substitutions were made to fill orders. What I've arrived at is only based on what sounded the best, so that's why I use 16 gauge stranded copper wire, 14 gauge if the client wants it.

Past 14 gauge, it's like driving the dragster to the corner store 1/8 mile away...overkill.

[fillmore nyc]

Past 14 gauge, it's like driving the dragster to the corner store 1/8 mile away...overkill.

But it IS fun, and its fuckin' LOUD...

(Just how we musicians like it!!)

[BaronGreenback]

looks like ive got some more shopping to do then. anyone want any 18 awg wire?

[Peeps]

Ok, I rewierd my cab with the 16 gauge wire, instead of using a switch.....I just swapped the wires to the two bottom speakers. this gave me my X patteren when in the single amp Mod.....It sounds better to me having one speaker on each side instedd of straight up and down.....If I don't like it later....I'll just undo it real quick.

The 16g wire does give it more punch and better lows, Imo. and was cheap to do...... also I soldered all the clips to the wire just for the hell of it.

[Scumback Speakers]

Ok, I rewierd my cab with the 16 gauge wire, instead of using a switch.....I just swapped the wires to the two bottom speakers. this gave me my X patteren when in the single amp Mod.....It sounds better to me having one speaker on each side instedd of straight up and down.....If I don't like it later....I'll just undo it real quick.

The 16g wire does give it more punch and better lows, Imo. and was cheap to do...... also I soldered all the clips to the wire just for the hell of it.

Glad that worked out for you.