EVH TONE RIGHT HERE

[Tone Slinger]

Mark was using the regular jj el34 (Ralle got lots of people using them a few yrs back, due to his killer EVH tones) on that clip, and still does I think.

I remember when Mark was working on Efrasers 800 series 4 holer, he made mention that he was really likeing the tubes in it (JJ E34L's) I have heard great results from from either. The e34L is gonna stay tighter under stress, as compared to the standard el 34. Also, expect it to have a tad more bottom.

Some find the e34L to be a bit stiff/sterile sounding, but Efrasers amp absolutly sound great (e34L's)

[OdgeUK]

Thinking about picking up a JMP version 1959 and trying the low-filtering and LarMar PPIMV thing.

Is this a good head to try this on? I've never soldered PCB, it looks like a bitch to get right. And I suppose the whole board has got to come out (and preamp sockets / pots etc all unsoldered) to get at the Filter Caps under the board?

[happycritter]

Hi folks, Rockstah!

Firstly, thank you Rockstah for your generous sharing of the cct. values you've used to unlock the early EVH tone. I was in the midst of developing a different, high gain amp but now I have to try-out what you've uncovered before I finish that.

Just to verify, the cct. should look like this?

V1 - 32uF
V1b: Rk/Ck 2k7/0.68uF
Ra 100k . . . . . . First stage
Ci 0.0022uF
V1a: Rk/Ck 10k
Ra 100k . . . . . . Second stage
Ci 0.022uF

V2 - 32uF
V2b: Rk/Ck 820/0.68uF
Ra 100k . . . . . . Third stage
Ci n/a
V2a: Rk/Ck 100k
Ra n/a . . . . . . . Cathode Follower
Ci n/a

Phase Inverter
V3 - 16uF
V3b: Rk n/a
Ra 100k
Ci 0.022uF
V3a: Rk n/a
Ra 100k
Ci 0.022uF

Hopefully this will help nail things down because I've seen a few posts about particulars. Thanks again Rockstah!

EDITED because   doesn't seem to work...

[Coot Boy]

what low filtering values do you think will work on a 50 watter 2204?

I just finished a 2204 build as I was reading through this post so I decided to try the low filtering. I put 50 mains, 16 screens and PI and 32/32 preamp. PI fizz cap is 47p, NFB 47k/8 ohm. No cap on V2a cathode. .022 PI couplers, left the bright cap in. Didn't use the .0022, tried it but went back to .022, 33k/500p tonestack. All is excellent, really happy, the amp is just killer. I will be attacking my 69 spec 100 in the same way. I have a low voltage PT in this amp, 386v at the plates so I'm not sure how the usual 450Vs will go but my amp is enormous, feedback on demand, killer huge bass, absolutely NO pedals required.
Thanks to RS for the generous sharing.

[Tone Slinger]

In my research, I've found 'deleted' posts by RS . WoW !

[bmf5150]

who is Rs??

[Night Owl]

I've gone through this thread a couple of times and was left with a few things that weren't clear:

1. Looks like 22K NFB resistor, but which impedance tap was used?
2. One of the V1 caps was switched from .022 to .0022, but in the thread it looked like it may have been switched back to .022. Did I misunderstand that?
3. In the base 12xxx config, the V3 plate resistors are 82K and 100K. It looks like it was recommended that they both be 100K, correct?
4. 47pF or 100pF on the phase inverter cap?

Thanks!

[jerrydyer]

who is Rs??

Richard Santiago

"Santiagos death, while tragic, served the bigger picture."

[Tone Slinger]

Mark (Rock Stah, RS). He has a situation that is OBVIOUS ! I got ears and a guitar, I will get to where I need to .

I dont think the 'mod 5' is anything special. Just a good 'attenuation' type spec for old EVH at managable volumes (WITHOUT extra heads and attenuators, etc). The player, guitar, and intentions, are just as important, 'cause MANY specs have worked before, but only under CERTAIN players fingers.

[vh junkie]

I think mod5 is special because it has to be adapted to "the amp"... if you watch the progression of any of the great tweakers that have worked on various amps, you start hearing the same thing...

"depends on the amp"!

...extend that and it depends on the speakers! The ohmage!

Slaving insulates you from this in a bad way! I like slaving cause it gives you a lot of control over volume and and effects... but it changes the whole dynamic...

I think we are talking about the Tale of Two Eds here... Strat78 and others have shown how killing your speakers and your ears with a 12xxx kit can do the deal!

Rockstah shown all of the above as well as how mod 5, slaving, etal can get you there too!

[Tone Slinger]

I like that certain 'crisp' compression' that happens with just a 'normal' cascaded stage of 12ax7 gain. That, along with attenuation (either externally or internally, ala, ppimv), really 'opens' the sound up. I think the values of the 1st two gain stages is to taste. That, along with the filtering, is the only variables. A Metro 12xxx doesnt need much to get at the Mod 5. '69 to '73 needs a little more changes, with the '74 to modern pcb's needing a little more still. All will work just fine, as long as the spec ( '67/'68 lower filtering, 1st two gain stages being cascaded 'to taste' (high to low preference, tighter, flubbier, etc) along with a lar/mar ppimv.

This spec really exposes what output tubes can do, since they (output tubes) arent being pushed to extremes. The nuances, like tight, or loose or hard or soft, or more bottom, less bottom, more highs, less highs, mids, etc, come into play, since the amp is being put only under normal 'operating' type strain.

Output tubes tend to really start sounding very similar under extrmeme stress/saturation.

[Night Owl]

I am finally getting around to doing a one-wire (cascade) mod to my 12xxx. It has a problem (see my post in the beginner's section), but that may be the only thing really necessary to get to a solid VH1 sound from a 12xxx build. I'm getting "that tone" which has been in my head for a long time, which I think is pretty near the VH1 tone. I have done several mods to my 12xxx, but all of them can be switched out or set to stock settings. I don't think the lower filtering will even be necessary. I may try it, but the tone is so good that I may not want to risk it.

All I have done is the stock 12xxx build with dual voltage. In addition to the one-wire mod, I added:

A rotary switch to cycle bright cap values through none, 47pf, 100pf, 250pf, 500pf, 1000pf, 2200pf, and 4700pf. That covers the Marshall spectrum pretty well.

A rotary switch that cycles through different combinations of NFB taps and resistor values (I have a LAR/MAR and wanted my Presence back).

A switch that takes my tone stack out of the circuit. A nice mod, but doesn't really make or break the tone quest.

I'm still debugging my one-wire mod problem at high volume, but by setting my bright cap to one of the many "stock" values, setting my NFB tap and resistor to one of the "stock values", using my LAR/MAR to prevent hearing loss, and diming everything, I have that tone I was dreaming about when I started this whole quest of building and modding my own amp.

And FWIW, I think Rockstah or somebody in one of this forum's classic threads set out to prove that EVH's VH1 tone is available with minimal equipment - now I completely agree. I think there may be little to it. Start with the right "stock" Marshall amp, like a 12xxx build replicates, and do the one-wire mod. Dime everything. Add in the low voltage option and I think you're about there. I bet they didn't fiddle with filtering or much else - just had a good Marshall, lowered the voltage, and did the one-wire mod. I could be wrong about the filtering, since I haven't yet tried it (I bought the parts), but I'm so happy with the tone I have that I may skip it once I get my problem debugged. Plus, the amp isn't a one-trick pony. The one-wire mod can be switched out and you're back to "normal" plexi tones!

[billyblades]

i like getting the tone without hooking up to x,w ,& z! just a guitar , amp & cord ! i do believe even tho people who seen the amp said it looked stock is because it was stock,,, just a few changes & the amo still appears stock but a wire change here and there can go un-noticed very easily and really change and enhance the amp!

[Tone Slinger]

Great, I'm almost there Night Owl. You still on the 16 ohm tap ?

[Night Owl]

I now have a rotary switch for my NFB circuit. It has 8 settings:

100K 16ohm
47K 8ohm
47K 16ohm
33K 8ohm
22K 8ohm
22K 16ohm
10K 8ohm
10K 16ohm

If you convert the 8ohm ones to their 16ohm "resistance equivalents", that gives you something close to:

100K
68K
47K
47K
33K
22K
15K
10K

give or take a couple of K, which seems a pretty good range to handle the LAR/MAR settings. The two 47's are on different taps, because I wanted to see if the tap made any discernible difference other than the resistance. If I had more switch positions available, I may have tried some lower values, along with taking the NFB out completely for comparison.

I just wired this up yesterday, and don't have it drilled through the chassis and mounted yet, so it's a little awkward to try. It does give me some better control of Presence with the LAR/MAR dialed down, and I can hear the difference. I don't think it will be huge, but definitely there.

Once I finish figuring out my one-wire problem, I'll tidy it all up and give it a more systematic workout with varying LAR/MAR settings, one-wire in/out, maybe different bright caps, etc.