Need help to decide between the JTM45 and JMP 50

[TheShaggyFox]

Hey there, if you can't already tell, I'M NEW! Let the flaming begin. Kidding!

Let me give you some history of where I'm coming from. Back about a year ago I owned a Vox AC30CCH that I absolutely loved. Everything about it just screamed my name. Then I started playing in a punk band for a bit, and while the AC30 was great in our small practice space, it just lacked the low end balls to be really felt in larger venues (I'm talking about large venues un-mic'd... we don't get a chance to play places that actually mic your guitar cab, since those are usually reserved for bigger bands). After a couple of shows where I literally couldn't be felt (or sometimes heard very well) in the mix, I decided I needed to get rid of the AC30 for something with a little more power. I sold the AC30 and got an Ampeg V4 which is a VERY different amp. And while I enjoy the Ampeg V4 for its pure power (100 watts and LOUD) and balls, I just don't have fun playing it. It's a super clean amp so I use a dirt pedal for gain but it's just not really my thing. I miss the sound of an amp just breaking up or being driven into insanity. It just doesn't have the "feel" that I enjoy on my fingers like the way the Vox AC30 does, but the Vox isn't going to cut it for my band situation. Then I found out about these beautiful Metro Amps.

So here's my thing. My first instinct was a JMP 50 Plexi, because it's wattage rating is in-between the Vox AC30 and the Ampeg V4 (my bandmates won't let me go past 3-4 on my Ampeg V4), plus I can get that sweet breakup I'm looking for. But the JTM45 has caught my eye though because I heard it sounds thick, which reminds me of my AC30. A question I have is... is the JTM45 really only a 30 watt amp? Because if so, I'm not sure if it would be the right thing for me, unless it somehow had more low end balls and was a bit louder than my AC30. Otherwise I'll take a JMP 50. If I do go the JMP 50 Plexi route, would the Lead Spec or Bass Spec be closer to that jangly chimey high end of the AC30? I'm basically looking for an amp that kinda has the jangly-chimey feel but with much more power.

Sorry for the longest first post in the world, but I hope you guys can help me out on my Metro Amp purchase! Thanks a million.

EDIT: Here's a link to my band so you can get an idea of what I was talking about. It's pretty aggressive sounding band. Recorded with my AC30CCH and a BadCat Hot Cat through a Marshall 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks. http://www.myspace.com/untilyourheartstopsmusic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[flemingmras]

Hey there, if you can't already tell, I'M NEW! Let the flaming begin. Kidding!

Let me give you some history of where I'm coming from. Back about a year ago I owned a Vox AC30CCH that I absolutely loved. Everything about it just screamed my name. Then I started playing in a punk band for a bit, and while the AC30 was great in our small practice space, it just lacked the low end balls to be really felt in larger venues (I'm talking about large venues un-mic'd... we don't get a chance to play places that actually mic your guitar cab, since those are usually reserved for bigger bands). After a couple of shows where I literally couldn't be felt (or sometimes heard very well) in the mix, I decided I needed to get rid of the AC30 for something with a little more power. I sold the AC30 and got an Ampeg V4 which is a VERY different amp. And while I enjoy the Ampeg V4 for its pure power (100 watts and LOUD) and balls, I just don't have fun playing it. It's a super clean amp so I use a dirt pedal for gain but it's just not really my thing. I miss the sound of an amp just breaking up or being driven into insanity. It just doesn't have the "feel" that I enjoy on my fingers like the way the Vox AC30 does, but the Vox isn't going to cut it for my band situation. Then I found out about these beautiful Metro Amps.

So here's my thing. My first instinct was a JMP 50 Plexi, because it's wattage rating is in-between the Vox AC30 and the Ampeg V4 (my bandmates won't let me go past 3-4 on my Ampeg V4), plus I can get that sweet breakup I'm looking for. But the JTM45 has caught my eye though because I heard it sounds thick, which reminds me of my AC30. A question I have is... is the JTM45 really only a 30 watt amp? Because if so, I'm not sure if it would be the right thing for me, unless it somehow had more low end balls and was a bit louder than my AC30. Otherwise I'll take a JMP 50. If I do go the JMP 50 Plexi route, would the Lead Spec or Bass Spec be closer to that jangly chimey high end of the AC30? I'm basically looking for an amp that kinda has the jangly-chimey feel but with much more power.

Sorry for the longest first post in the world, but I hope you guys can help me out on my Metro Amp purchase! Thanks a million.

EDIT: Here's a link to my band so you can get an idea of what I was talking about. It's pretty aggressive sounding band. Recorded with my AC30CCH and a BadCat Hot Cat through a Marshall 4x12 loaded with Greenbacks. http://www.myspace.com/untilyourheartstopsmusic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hey there and welcome to the boards! In no way do I get paid to advertise for George (owner of MetroAmp)...I simply speak from experience when I say "you made the best choice you could've made when deciding on MetroAmp".

Honestly, if you're looking for the sound of the amp breaking up and you need volume, I would go with a 100 watt plexi with a PPIMV (i.e. Post Phase Inverter Master Volume). Unlike a standard master volume that only allows you to overdrive the preamp (which sounds very much like a "dirt pedal"), the PPIMV is a master volume that allows you to overdrive the crap out of the "phase inverter" section of the amp (the phase inverter is a differential amplifier that drives your output tubes). Overdriving the phase inverter sounds amazingly close, if not spot on, to what the amp would sound like with a power attenuator or with it flat out cranked. You'll be able to get the sound you want while having 100 watts of clean power, which should give you more than enough volume.

The other beauty of having a 100 watter is if 100 watts is too much, or if you wanna push the output section and get it to break up at a lower volume, you can always pull two of the output tubes out (either the inside pair or the outside pair) and drop your "ohms selector" switch down one setting and PRESTO! You have a 50 watt amplifier!

If you get the 100 watt with the dual voltage secondary, you can switch it into "low voltage mode" which will give you the flexibility to give the amp less headroom, thereby making it break up even earlier in the volume range.

Feel free to post up any questions you have. I'm sure I speak for everyone here, but we're all here to share tone secrets and trade tips & tricks beneficial to helping those here in their quest for the ultimate tone.

[Structo]

I'm in the same boat, trying to decide which amp I want.

They all have their pluses.

The only thing that keeps me from really wanting the 100 watter is the cost of tubing it.

A quad of EL34's can get spendy unless you are able to afford them easily.

I know there isn't that much of a volume leap between a 50 and 100 but by all accounts the 100 watter will sound fuller with more balls for sure.

The price difference isn't that great either.

You really can't make a bad choice with Metro amps and if I could afford it I would have one of each!

For me a Marshall is first and foremost about the crunch, then the clean tones.

I was surprised years ago when I found out that Stevie Ray Vaughn used his Marshalls for his clean tone and his Fender amps for his distorted tone.
I would guess the bluesier tone of the Fender amps cranked won that battle verses the more rock and roll or metal tone of the overdriven Marshalls.

Decisions, decisions......

[TheShaggyFox]

Hey there!

I appreciate the suggestions. My only concern is that I feel 100 watts will be too much power for me. I'm currently playing out of an Ampeg V4 and that thing is hard to tame! But I guess maybe with a PPIMV that could change things a bit.

Keep the suggestions coming! Thanks guys!

[neikeel]

More on this subject here:

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=27535

No doubt a 100 watter has more in reserve and give more clean headroom and more bottom end push. For a while I ran my '64 AC30T with a Lead 50watter which was pretty good but had to compromise because I was using the Vox for clean and the Marshall for dirty stuff but for the Vox to keep up I had to crank it whereupon it would break up and distort (in a nice way) and I had to reel the Marshall in with mixture of PPIMV and attenuator.
At the moment I am using a 68 Superlead but I have to attenuate that quite a bit (it is an original so no MV mods) if I want to get it to 6-7 on the dial (its sweet spot) use the guitar to clean up. I use a Motherload Elemental (itself an improvement on the Hotplate).
If you rock out for the whole set you will be fine but we play covers from funk-indie-punk-rock and even dancy pop so I have to cover a lot, and I am neither a guitar tart nor amp poseur when I play out at least and prefer a low key stage set up with one amp (two at most) and one guitar with a spare tucked out of site I like to keep my pedal board simple too!

[flemingmras]

Hey there!

I appreciate the suggestions. My only concern is that I feel 100 watts will be too much power for me. I'm currently playing out of an Ampeg V4 and that thing is hard to tame! But I guess maybe with a PPIMV that could change things a bit.

Keep the suggestions coming! Thanks guys!

IMHO, this whole "a 100 watter is way too loud for me" thing has gotta go and here's why -

First and foremost, there are too many options nowadays to get around that to where rated power output isn't even an issue anymore.

Second, there's only a 3dB difference in acoustic power when you double the electrical output power. That's hardly discernable!

Lastly, there are other tricks you can do with the EQ itself such as cutting the frequency range that the human ears are the most sensitive to (i.e. presence and highs).

Yes, with the PPIMV you will have a tone that is very super close to what it would sound like with the output section at full tilt.

And again...you can always make the 100 watt a 50 watt by pulling two of the output tubes out and dropping your ohms selector down one setting.

The previous sentence will get you around the "I can't afford to retube a 100 watt this month" problem.

Also, MetroAmp carries their dual voltage secondary power transformer that gives you a "low voltage" option. This gives you the ability to drop the headroom of the amplifier by the flick of a switch, making the amp break up at a lower volume.

They also make power attenuators like the Marshall Power Brake and the THD Hotplate that allow you to fully blast the amp at a moderate volume level.

Again...you have many options...and a 100 watter is configurable to pull double duty as either a 50 or 100 watter so it gives you more options than the 50 watt (can't make a 50 watt into a 100 watt).

[TheShaggyFox]

Hey guys! I just want to say thanks so much for the great replies you guys wrote out for me! Because of you I'm definitely considering the 100 watt JMP! Thanks again, hope to hear from you soon once I put in my order...

[PerFusionist]

drop your "ohms selector" switch down one setting

Just curious about this...so if I was rocking a 100 watt (still trying to decide about that actually ) and removed 2 tubes to make it 50 watts - I'd have to drop from, say 8 to 4 ohms? This sounds important

[flemingmras]

drop your "ohms selector" switch down one setting

Just curious about this...so if I was rocking a 100 watt (still trying to decide about that actually ) and removed 2 tubes to make it 50 watts - I'd have to drop from, say 8 to 4 ohms? This sounds important

Doing this doubles the primary impedance on each plate. Running two tubes in 50 watt mode requires double the primary impedance of running 4 tubes in 100 watt mode.

This procedure applies only if you're running two tubes in 50 watt mode on a 100 watt amp!!!

If you pull two tubes, it has to be either the inside pair or the outside pair.

If you run a 16 ohm cab, your ohms selector should be set to 8 ohms.

If you run an 8 ohm cab, your ohms selector should be set to 4 ohms.

[PerFusionist]

That is important.

Thanks for sorting me out!