Alnico II vs Alnico V (for early EVH)

[MARCO]

Here is what you guys seem to not get:
The Frankie has an Alnico II in it.
The EVH Custom Shop Duncan is also an Alnico II.
Seymour said the EVH Custom Shop was the exact same pickup he did for Ed back then. Greg Burnett and Chip both said that after tinkering with an Alnico 5 but found that the original pickup and sound was the Alnico II......so where do you guys come up with A5!!????
An A5 might sound better in a Mahogany or Basswood body but if you are trying to get that tone, the A2, assymetric wind in an Ash guitar is it....in any guitar for that matter. I'll bet 90% of you aren't even trying it with a cranked Marshall like he did or a variac.
The JB sounds nothing like VH, sorry. People were saying the Custom Custom was alot like his pickup too and that sounds like hot garbage, like the JB.

[YHWH]

... well... considering that much of VH's first album was recorded with Ed's "sen ash" Ibanez Destroyer w/ Super 70s pups... I'd say a PAF-style pup with an Alnico 8 mag innit would suffice for "early" VH.

... SD Alternative 8 anyone?

[Strat78]

... well... considering that much of VH's first album was recorded with Ed's "sen ash" Ibanez Destroyer w/ Super 70s pups... I'd say a PAF-style pup with an Alnico 8 mag innit would suffice for "early" VH.

... SD Alternative 8 anyone?

I put an 8 in my 70's Mighty Mite Distortion and it was pretty incredible sounding. I'll post a clip tomorrow.

[bmf5150]

... well... considering that much of VH's first album was recorded with Ed's "sen ash" Ibanez Destroyer w/ Super 70s pups... I'd say a PAF-style pup with an Alnico 8 mag innit would suffice for "early" VH.

... SD Alternative 8 anyone?

I put an 8 in my 70's Mighty Mite Distortion and it was pretty incredible sounding. I'll post a clip tomorrow.

what does the might mite sound like versus the super 70?

[leadguy]

Somehow the bottom of the image had problems. A Super 70 spec promo.



To my ear there is Alnico 8 all over VH1 and the Ibanez Destroyer had stock Super 70s and Ed's either using a Super 70 in his Strat or he's put a Super 70 Alnico 8 magnet into another pickup and used that in the Strat. The pickup Seymour Duncan and I think Wayne Charvel saw was probably a pickup Ed was using at the time that he liked and wouldn't have been the Alnico 8 pickup. Ed was always changing things around.

From other forums


"Actually, on the Alnico 8's, it quite the opposite. I learned about Alnico 8 from Lynn Collins several years ago.
They're an extremely sweet sounding magnet. Very sensitive, so they sustain for a very long time. You've got to lower them a bit further than Alnico 5, but once you find "the spot" there's nothing like 'em.
They're pretty expensive though, that's why I dropped them from my line of pickups.

Wolfe"

"I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses. To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in).

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness.

I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point.

Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story..."


"I'll throw out what I'm thinking.

Alnico 5 cast is 12,500 Gauss (flux) and 640 Oersteds (field intensity). The strength of the magnet is flux times field intensity. So the magnet strength is 8 million Gauss-Oersteds.

Alnico 8 cast is a lower 8,300 Gauss of flux, but is way up at 1650 Oerseteds of field intenisty. The magnet strength is 13.7 million Guass-Oersteds, or 71% stronger than Alnico V sintered, and 277% stronger than Alnico II sintered.

If the relationship between inductance/output and magnet/core strength given a stable dc resisttance were linear, a pickup with an alnico V magnet that - all else the same - gets a Alnico 8 magnet will have 71% more output. But I assume the relationship is not linear. I wonder what the relative relationship is."

"Certainly the A8 has a much stronger field. As mentioned above the field strength to output ratio is not linear though. In totally non scientific testing I would say your ear will hear a 10% to 15% output increase. You will also hear a fairly noticeable tone difference. More bite, no scooped mids and tighter bottom end. Somewhat like a ceramic but not harsh or ice picky."
__________________

[Gainiac]

... well... considering that much of VH's first album was recorded with Ed's "sen ash" Ibanez Destroyer w/ Super 70s pups... I'd say a PAF-style pup with an Alnico 8 mag innit would suffice for "early" VH.

... SD Alternative 8 anyone?

It's just too hot. I'm using a WCR Crossroads pickup measuring in the 7.5 range with an Alnico 8 magnet, and it's very close. I'd say it's a better pickup overall than my Super 70s. My Super 70s measure 7.92 in the bridge and 7.78 in the neck.

Again realize that there is a difference between cast and sintered Alnico 8, and I believe you're not able to buy cast Alnico 8 magnets anymore. What we get today are sintered.

[bmf5150]

Somehow the bottom of the image had problems. A Super 70 spec promo.



To my ear there is Alnico 8 all over VH1 and the Ibanez Destroyer had stock Super 70s and Ed's either using a Super 70 in his Strat or he's put a Super 70 Alnico 8 magnet into another pickup and used that in the Strat. The pickup Seymour Duncan and I think Wayne Charvel saw was probably a pickup Ed was using at the time that he liked and wouldn't have been the Alnico 8 pickup. Ed was always changing things around.

From other forums


"Actually, on the Alnico 8's, it quite the opposite. I learned about Alnico 8 from Lynn Collins several years ago.
They're an extremely sweet sounding magnet. Very sensitive, so they sustain for a very long time. You've got to lower them a bit further than Alnico 5, but once you find "the spot" there's nothing like 'em.
They're pretty expensive though, that's why I dropped them from my line of pickups.

Wolfe"

"I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses. To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in).

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness.

I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point.

Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story..."


"I'll throw out what I'm thinking.

Alnico 5 cast is 12,500 Gauss (flux) and 640 Oersteds (field intensity). The strength of the magnet is flux times field intensity. So the magnet strength is 8 million Gauss-Oersteds.

Alnico 8 cast is a lower 8,300 Gauss of flux, but is way up at 1650 Oerseteds of field intenisty. The magnet strength is 13.7 million Guass-Oersteds, or 71% stronger than Alnico V sintered, and 277% stronger than Alnico II sintered.

If the relationship between inductance/output and magnet/core strength given a stable dc resisttance were linear, a pickup with an alnico V magnet that - all else the same - gets a Alnico 8 magnet will have 71% more output. But I assume the relationship is not linear. I wonder what the relative relationship is."

"Certainly the A8 has a much stronger field. As mentioned above the field strength to output ratio is not linear though. In totally non scientific testing I would say your ear will hear a 10% to 15% output increase. You will also hear a fairly noticeable tone difference. More bite, no scooped mids and tighter bottom end. Somewhat like a ceramic but not harsh or ice picky."
__________________

yeah,i agree i hear the super 70 on VH1 and aloty of the other albums too.he could have very well played around with other paf pickups with alnico 8 magnets..could you email me that add you have for the super 70 pickup,it doesnt show up all the way on here..thanks
bmf5150@yahoo.com

[sadwings75]

Anyone know where I could buy an alnico 8 magnet?
The more I read about them the more I'm interested in trying one.

[leadguy]

I downloaded the Super 70 spec image like that with the bottom missing because of how my dumb computer downloaded it. I think I got it from a Ibanez catalog. I'll try to find the Ibanez catalog but I don't know if I can because I've forgotten where I found it. Seymour Duncan has a Alnico 8 but I don't know if the magnet is similar to the Super 70 Alnico 8 magnet, probably not. You could try buying some old Super 70 pickups or maybe Greco pickups but they don't come up that often and when they do there are quite a few people after them. I wish I would have kept my Super 70s from my old Ibanez and the guitar as well.

[rgalpin]

Anyone know where I could buy an alnico 8 magnet?
The more I read about them the more I'm interested in trying one.

check this out...
http://www.allmagnetics.com/alnicobars.htm

you think this would work? i stopped short of calling them because i don't know the dimensions of the bar.

[bmf5150]

I downloaded the Super 70 spec image like that with the bottom missing because of how my dumb computer downloaded it. I think I got it from a Ibanez catalog. I'll try to find the Ibanez catalog but I don't know if I can because I've forgotten where I found it. Seymour Duncan has a Alnico 8 but I don't know if the magnet is similar to the Super 70 Alnico 8 magnet, probably not. You could try buying some old Super 70 pickups or maybe Greco pickups but they don't come up that often and when they do there are quite a few people after them. I wish I would have kept my Super 70s from my old Ibanez and the guitar as well.

im sending my super 70 to winder aka highorder to copy it for me..
stan

[sadwings75]

Anyone know where I could buy an alnico 8 magnet?
The more I read about them the more I'm interested in trying one.

check this out...
http://www.allmagnetics.com/alnicobars.htm

you think this would work? i stopped short of calling them because i don't know the dimensions of the bar.

Thanks for the post.
I've got a bar out of SD JB here that is about 2.5 inches in length, with a width of a half inch , and a thickness of 1/8 of an inch.
So the length is 2 and 1/2; thickness and width are 1/8 x 1/2.
I wonder if they might cut some to your specs.

[Kel]

http://www.shop.wymoreguitars.com/produ ... ductId=326

Looks like this place has the A8's. I just ordered one of them.

[rgalpin]

http://www.shop.wymoreguitars.com/produ ... ductId=326

Looks like this place has the A8's. I just ordered one of them.

great! alright - i am now going to show my ignorance... one? or two magnets in a humbucker?

[Gainiac]

almost always just one - sometimes you'll see spacers in there in pictures but they shouldn't be confused with magnets