Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

For all things to build the brown sound

Moderators: VelvetGeorge, RACKSYSTEMS

Post Reply
Krinkle
Senior Member
Posts: 609
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Pickering, Ontario

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by Krinkle » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:13 pm

rgalpin wrote:
Krinkle wrote:I still think the amp is biased too cold, even at 50mA at 90VAC. This is set to 60VAC with the MXR. Between the cold bias and the "fat" cap I installed the other day I would say too much bass and not enough gain. It only took about 3 hours to upload this to Youtube. It was one take, then I thought maybe I should take my time and do another one, until the upload took forever.

Let's see if this works, Youtube has been giving me fits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0LEHMl9qiA
I like this. Listening and knowing it's just a camera/phone mic in the room right? So, knowing that, you have to fill in the blanks between this and a close mic'd produced sound - but what i hear here is I can hear YOUR playing because that setup is making you work - this is the kind of tone i love - and this is the kind of tone i hear in a lot of live clips of ed like the Oakland 81 stuff - you can really hear him playing and all that unique technique that is so attractive - where VH I was ed in a controlled meltdown - this kind of tone you have here is more dependent on technique - and you pull it off really well and it's fun to listen to you play those leads in this setup cause i can really hear how you play them - very cool.

my experience so far with this is that you start with high and tight plexi tone - and for me that does not include a 330 on v2a - nor does it include an 820 on v1b or v2a - got to go higher on those resistor values to chop off the low junk - nor does it include big values on the NFB resistor -> go low and keep everything tight like a balloon - and listen for that envelope like what you hear in the main intro riff of BOTTOM'S UP (not the quiet part - i'm talking about the biting A and C - D riff after the drums come in) - now with that snappy, high, sassy envelope, tight plexi, you take the deep dive to 60V-ish land - when and if you lose the gain you want, start pushing it with a vintage blue mxr eq - get some of those sliders into the +9db area that you couldn't use before because of the hiss at 120V.

that's my experience with it anyway - every amp is different. i just got some fresh 6CA7s that I want to try with this - as well as experimenting with the slave setup a la mr. twisty. :thumbsup:
Thanks Rob, that's very flattering, I love your playing. Yeah, just a video camera. And I DID have to work hard, that's why I was complaining! It was a one take wonder, I don't have the patience to polish everything up, I just let er rip and live with it.

I agree with everything you said. I'm on the way down to the basement to tweak it again. I'll desolder and lift one end of the fat cap and use my alligator wires to jump it in an out so I can hear the difference. I'll jumper a 100k resistor across the the 100k NFB resistor to see if I like 47k better, I get the feeling that I will. I was liking the change from 2.7k to 820r, now you have me thinking about that too!

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:28 pm

I got my 6band today. Totally destroys my tone.
Supposed to be reduced hiss and it is nothing super stellar here but midly better. Acts just exactly like my ten band did pretty much. Totally not gonna be in my chain for certain.
1 sounds un-natural no matter the setting unless its a cut, flat, or off
2 doesn't give quite the wild gain boost for me some are getting-it boosts but I have to really keep it down minimum to benefit
3 if you tap on the pedal while its on its a microphonic little bastard like my 10band was
4 my amp sounds waaay more vh without it
5 If your boosted too much its like it clips or cancels frequencies almost like severe compression-it will sound like a drop out almost
6 I got rid of pickup squeal variacing-this brings it back
All the things my 10 band did and the reason I sold it....
Good news is when I unplug it I am back in awesome tone land. So I just don't get or understand why my amp seems to be so different than seemingly everyone elses here. It smokes my channel 2 on the 5153-though similar its still alot better. Its like all I need to do is plug in and enjoy-maybe get those 6c's in there and stick to pickup whoring.
I am getting really great gain and sounds with everything but the 59(lacks balls but has good basic tone)
My e.q. response sounds fine in the normal voicing of my amp. Addin anything contrary is messin it up.
I can clean up, get fair warning/wacf kinda gain. I don't wanna touch anything its that good.
Even the tap intro to meanstreat is like "there". If I raise the variac up so its louder to the point it starts to hurt your ears its even better.

User avatar
echoplexi1974
Senior Member
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:45 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Castle Grayskull

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by echoplexi1974 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:16 pm

Dirtycooter, please post a clip with it on and off.

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:25 pm

Its like sitting in front of your amp and getting that Fools tone with the pv wolf

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:47 pm

I am gonna have to really try tonight or tomorrow to make a quick clip-won't have a bunch of trimming fx wise though as my whole board and rack are in pieces and I got a mess goin on. Right now I got poontang to tend to.
Why is it they wanna go out to eat then screw? Seems like the other way around would be better. Full stomach is not helpful :wink:

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:27 pm

Here you go-fast bang and go shit recording. Totally Stock Peacemaker @70volts-all knobs on 10 except bass volume all the way off-8ohm jack to 16ohm cab made in England reissue h53-1777 cones. JJ E34L's probably more than getting toward their end.
Straight in from Peavey USA Special Wolfgang-also stock
SM57 straight dead on center touching the grill cloth
Only slight 375ms mono delay added for roominess because I didn't wanna screw with the reverb tweaking-nothing else-not even a noise suppression in the recorder
NO BOOSTS

Whattya think? :?

https://soundcloud.com/dirtycooter/tr0708-2wav

User avatar
guitar007
Senior Member
Posts: 1154
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:28 pm
Contact:

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by guitar007 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:28 pm

Impressive bottom end with the bass on zero. Sounds like a fun amp to play. Congrats!
~guitar007

mr.twistyneck
Senior Member
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:18 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Smyrna, TN Home of the Sma-nurn-ianz
Contact:

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by mr.twistyneck » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:32 pm

I think the Peacemaker has more front end ooomph (gain), which might explain why you get crunchy goodness without a boost. I would also hazard a guess that the Peacemaker has more low end, perhaps better control of it too, just naturally - which might explain why you had to roll it back. Great tone.

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:45 pm

no no gents

my channels are internally connected-4 inputs down to only 2. I can blend the bass volume and treble volumes together if I want automatically with the turn of the knobs.
The bass volume is down/off because a normal plexi doesn't care if this is maxed or not if your not plugged into that channel and or jumpered....treble volume is at 11 or as far as it can go, the actual front panel e.q. is on 10 for the bass as are all other knobs aside from the bass volume

I shoulda raised the variac for more recording volume-this was really low volume-it gets fatter and more articulate louder. My girlfriend was sitting indian legged on the floor 4 feet away soakin it up waitin on my ass to hurry trough this 8)

I used to hate this amp for years and it sat because I didn't know how to get its goodies out. debated modding the pisss out of it. Really glad I kept my dickbeaters out of it now :mrgreen:

mr.twistyneck
Senior Member
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:18 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Smyrna, TN Home of the Sma-nurn-ianz
Contact:

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by mr.twistyneck » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:17 am

the things you do for tone.... this was a dining room, a long time ago.

Image

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:04 am

Damn.... I need your decorators number. I love the trim :wink:


Room and space to jam, thats all I think about when its house hunt time :lol:

mr.twistyneck
Senior Member
Posts: 508
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:18 am
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Smyrna, TN Home of the Sma-nurn-ianz
Contact:

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by mr.twistyneck » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:10 pm

1 minute clip - some differences - used a Weber Mass attenuator to get my line out rather than a Hot Plate, and I didn't use the MXR Micro Boost. guitar - delay - EQ - head.

signal chain is guitar - analog delay (Hotone) - MXR 6band EQ - 60v Super Lead. This into a Weber Mass, line out into Ch2 of a Super Trem at wall voltage. Added some Gverb afterwards with Audacity.

http://www.twistyneck.net/OnFleek.mp3

I'm very pleased with the results. The Weber is on Attenuate, but the cab I'm using for the 60v SL isn't mic'd and can barely be heard over the ST. I turned the tone controls OFF, treble boost OFF on the Weber, and the attenuation is set to 7. Weird things happen with the Weber:
1. The tone dramatically changes when you alter the attenuation of the 60v head. like a LOT. so 7 was a sweet spot.
2. If I turn the Weber's tone stack ON, then I can't get the ST as loud. I can't turn the CH2 volume much past 2 or so, because i get a huge WHOOOOOOOOMMMMM feedback. I'm not an expert on instrument/line level stuff, but I'm guessing that the line out of the Weber is line level? so feeding that into the front end of the ST might be making it do strange things? This also happened with the Hot Plate - I couldn't get the volume on the ST up very far before this mysterious feedback emerged.

jnew
Senior Member
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Front Row Seat From the Outer Continental Shelf

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by jnew » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:27 pm

I hope not to come across as a dick but I'm just gonna tell it straight. That does not do a good job of representing early VH. To me it is very stiff, sterile and has an almost ghost like high end. I have heard those amps in the past actually sound pretty good so I was hoping the variac trick would be cool. Sorry if it's offensive man. Not trying dis on you. 8)

Edit: this post is referring to the clip of the Peacemaker. I just realized there have been several post's since I had listened to it's clip.
________________________________
I SEE THINGS BETTER, WHEN I LISTEN


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1214336" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:20 pm

Theres always room for tweakin though. Right?
Wanna see what I end up with lowering the filtering, 6C's, etc.
Stiff is a feeling and this amp lost quite a bit of that variacing. But I like stiff tight with real sensitive touch.
No offense taken at all-I know its not spot on but its also not the EXACT 12series circuit and its pretty damn fun and is in a zip code just down the street-beats the ten miles it was before. But for outta the box and cheap variac, having sane volume, didn't tweak the bias, all knobs on ten, many pickups to swap, incorrect tubes for THE tone....
Where else you gonna find that in your everyday music store?? They always got cascaded gain amps and modeling. This is still a NMV amp with real tubes. It is what it is. I am gettin nice gain without all the hiss as well. I am amazed at how quiet this is.
Vics original clips were great but it sounded.... sluggish and bogged down some like he was towing a boat behind-not as quick if you understand that. This is a little more full of beans and rippier sounding to me.
It changes as you raise and lower the variac some too-it fattens up fuller higher voltage.

dirtycooter
Senior Member
Posts: 2923
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:02 pm

Re: Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

Post by dirtycooter » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:32 pm

Shoulda tried the low sensitivity input while I was in there-just thought of it :bang:

Post Reply