The man, the band, and everything else
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Good Guest
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by Good Guest » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:53 pm
Sparky4444 wrote:From that pic in the studio, it looks like there are two speaker cables coming out of the Plexi....
???...

Line out..haven't you heard the story of the massive resistor in the amp and the fact that Jose used to make lineouts that have the same output and control as depicted on the back of THE amp...transformer type lineouts too.
here is a new pic:

- guitarist_edward_van_halen_197720ch-2-1.jpg (195.74 KiB) Viewed 1297 times
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Sparky4444
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by Sparky4444 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:54 pm
Good Guest wrote:Sparky4444 wrote:From that pic in the studio, it looks like there are two speaker cables coming out of the Plexi....
???...

Line out..haven't you heard the story of the massive resistor in the amp and the fact that Jose used to make lineouts that have the same output and control as depicted on the back of THE amp...transformer type lineouts too.
here is a new pic:
guitarist_edward_van_halen_197720ch-2-1.jpg
So in essence, KINDA along the same lines as the Palmer??
...are these lineouts going to the console?? Maybe serving the reverb sends only??
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Good Guest
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by Good Guest » Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:47 pm
Sparky4444 wrote:Good Guest wrote:Sparky4444 wrote:From that pic in the studio, it looks like there are two speaker cables coming out of the Plexi....
???...

Line out..haven't you heard the story of the massive resistor in the amp and the fact that Jose used to make lineouts that have the same output and control as depicted on the back of THE amp...transformer type lineouts too.
here is a new pic:
guitarist_edward_van_halen_197720ch-2-1.jpg
So in essence, KINDA along the same lines as the Palmer??
...are these lineouts going to the console?? Maybe serving the reverb sends only??
The lineout would go to his time effects ..most likely his flanger or echoplex..using his plexi as a distortion box driven by his 6 band and secret pedal...from there it can go anywhere he wants ...anywhere and it really doesn't matter at that point ..all his tone is there for the picking....it can go to a console, a reverb ,another amp , anywhere.
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vanhalen5150
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by vanhalen5150 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:09 pm
Where's that 2nd variac at?

And why is box "2" plugged in?

12000 Metro Kit
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Sparky4444
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by Sparky4444 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:44 pm
Good Guest wrote:Sparky4444 wrote:Good Guest wrote:
Line out..haven't you heard the story of the massive resistor in the amp and the fact that Jose used to make lineouts that have the same output and control as depicted on the back of THE amp...transformer type lineouts too.
here is a new pic:
guitarist_edward_van_halen_197720ch-2-1.jpg
So in essence, KINDA along the same lines as the Palmer??
...are these lineouts going to the console?? Maybe serving the reverb sends only??
The lineout would go to his time effects ..most likely his flanger or echoplex..using his plexi as a distortion box driven by his 6 band and secret pedal...from there it can go anywhere he wants ...anywhere and it really doesn't matter at that point ..all his tone is there for the picking....it can go to a console, a reverb ,another amp , anywhere.
Then what's the point of mic'ing?? Are we to believe the mic'ed and line-out were blended?? The line-outs, if driving a cab, would need a power-amp, so this would explain where the GE-10 might come in...
..ok...I thought that this kind of system didn't evolve until 5150?? If we're talking about line-outs, then I can see why the Beat It solo sounded the way it did compared to all the other stuff -- no mics, just direct signal...
..I have the Palmer and I always thought it brought something to the table i.e, EVH recorded...but if what you guys are saying is correct, he was doing this from day one...and this might explain a comment he made in an interview around 5150 on how he is kinda going back to how things were done in the beginning...
..it's a pain trying to blend the Palmer and mic'd tracks, but it would explain a lot

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rgalpin
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by rgalpin » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:32 pm
FWIW - Using the variac to varying degrees (based on venue, song, tone etc...) REQUIRES an easy way to bias on the fly, by ear. The knob on the back of the plexi could be a bias adjustment knob.
Without this easy way to adjust the bias you are stuck with whatever voltage you biased the amp at - unless you want to A. fry the tubes, or B. play with a cold bias.
Last edited by
rgalpin on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Good Guest
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by Good Guest » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:34 pm
Yeah I think what he meant about doing things how they used to be done ..is using his power resistor and tapping it at a certain point on the resistor...those resistors had tapping points that could be adgusted for whatever resistance you wanted to tap at..they say he tapped at a high resistance >16 ohms which is where you would tap if you wanted all your highs ...ever wonder why bass systems are 4 ohms ??? No highs , lots of lows...from there he could go to the Jose load box with lineout transformer etc. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a speaker in paralell going to a miced cab for later mixing.
The palmer as well as other units try and emulate the speaker curve with coils and caps and try to emulate cabs as well as providing a soaking and line out function...obviously he wasn't totally happy and decided to go back to the old way, without being subjected to the designers neurosis on what the cab and speaker SHOULD sound like.

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Sparky4444
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by Sparky4444 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:36 pm
rgalpin wrote:FWIW - Using the variac to varying degrees (based on venue, song, tone etc...) REQUIRES an easy way to bias on the fly, by ear. The knob on the back of the plexi could be a bias adjustment knob.
I think if you're going anywhere's below 105 VAC, you'd just dime the bias anyways...When I variac to 97VAC, my bias max'es out 40mV...pretty much spot on...
back to the line-out thing...I thought about that a few years ago mixing the effected Palmer out with the mic'd tracks -- but thought I was over-complicating matters..
...the other thing that confuses me is that the master tapes from the early VH sessions had two tracks for the guitars - one bright, one dark...This coming from someone over at Gearslutz...where would the lineout stereo track be?? I'm thinking it was printed to tape as an effect return track...
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Good Guest
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by Good Guest » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:37 pm
rgalpin wrote:FWIW - Using the variac to varying degrees (based on venue, song, tone etc...) REQUIRES an easy way to bias on the fly, by ear. The knob on the back of the plexi could be a bias adjustment knob.
Without this easy way to adjust the bias you are stuck with whatever voltage you biased the amp at.
No amp tech is going to drape the bias knob and wires across the whole amp and stick it close to the preamp, it just aint gonna happen.

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Sparky4444
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by Sparky4444 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Good Guest wrote:Yeah I think what he meant about doing things how they used to be done ..is using his power resistor and tapping it at a certain point on the resistor...those resistors had tapping points that could be adgusted for whatever resistance you wanted to tap at..they say he tapped at a high resistance >16 ohms which is where you would tap if you wanted all your highs ...ever wonder why bass systems are 4 ohms ??? No highs , lots of lows...from there he could go to the Jose load box with lineout transformer etc. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a speaker in paralell going to a miced cab for later mixing.
The palmer as well as other units try and emulate the speaker curve with coils and caps and try to emulate cabs as well as providing a soaking and line out function...obviously he wasn't totally happy and decided to go back to the old way, without being subjected to the designers neurosis on what the cab and speaker SHOULD sound like.

My Palmer is the PGA-04..doesn't have a line out unfiltered like the PGA-03 does, but it does have the FULL RANGE option, which I think does the same thing...PGA-04 is just too complicated sometimes....now the Aracom does have a line out, but that thing only works when I have the soak on variable and big time attenuation...The Palmer sounds wayyyy better IMHO
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rgalpin
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by rgalpin » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:45 pm
Good Guest wrote:rgalpin wrote:FWIW - Using the variac to varying degrees (based on venue, song, tone etc...) REQUIRES an easy way to bias on the fly, by ear. The knob on the back of the plexi could be a bias adjustment knob.
Without this easy way to adjust the bias you are stuck with whatever voltage you biased the amp at.
No amp tech is going to drape the bias knob and wires across the whole amp and stick it close to the preamp, it just aint gonna happen.

awesome!

that's exactly how mine is!

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Sparky4444
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by Sparky4444 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:48 pm
Sorry..the PDI-03, not PGA-03...Everyone is using the PDI-03's...Alex Lifeson is now totally in-ear using these things...Keith Urban uses them with his Marshalls (SuperBass and a boutique Plexi clone from Nashville) to drive 4x12's under the stage loaded with EV's...
...Damn things are expensive...anyone wanna buy my PGA-04?? lol

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Good Guest
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by Good Guest » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:13 pm
rgalpin wrote:Good Guest wrote:rgalpin wrote:FWIW - Using the variac to varying degrees (based on venue, song, tone etc...) REQUIRES an easy way to bias on the fly, by ear. The knob on the back of the plexi could be a bias adjustment knob.
Without this easy way to adjust the bias you are stuck with whatever voltage you biased the amp at.
No amp tech is going to drape the bias knob and wires across the whole amp and stick it close to the preamp, it just aint gonna happen.

awesome!

that's exactly how mine is!

At least if your amp starts sounding like a motorboat running out of gas you'll know why.

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rgalpin
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by rgalpin » Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:26 pm