New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

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67Mopar
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New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by 67Mopar » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:21 am

Hello to everyone here on the MetroAmp forum. I have a question about a new turret-board that Brian made for me this week. I see that the 1987 layout doesn't show the 2 x turrets at the end of the bias end of the board. I asked Brian to produce the board exactly like the layout image. The diagram shows the two blue wires from the standby switch connected directly to two of the diode turrets. When I look at a pic of an actual 1987 amp, there appear to be two "jumper" wires extending from two of the diode mounting turrets - then to the two additional turrets at the end of the board? On another image, it looks like there's a ground wire connected to one of the turrets, with nothing on the other. Can my 1987S amp use Brian's board without these two additional turrets?

Here is the turret-board:
Image

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by neikeel » Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:18 pm

I've not seen a board layout like that before and I have had several of Brians boards

What spec did you give him? He usally makes exactly what you ask for. It is the V1 cathode arrangement that looks weird to me......

The other end is straigthforwards, the cluster of turrets close together ar for the diodes and you wire them like this:

Image

with your blue wires to the diodes directly

more pics of that amp here:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j2/ne ... Amp016.jpg

ignore the switch - it is for a switchable RR mod that the onwer wanted.
Neil

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by 67Mopar » Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:47 pm

Thanks for the reply, and the pics.

I did request that he build the board just as you see it. He also posted a pic of it on his website. I used a diagram from a Metro 50 watt SL. At least I think it was a Metro diagram? I was going to put it into a Marshall 1987S head, but have decided to leave the 1987S amp stock. I'm going to put this into a new build, or into a 1987XL. I have everything loaded onto the board, except for the diodes and resistors. I just discovered that the diagram is a 69 spec 50 watt. So I guess this is a plexi spec board?

I would like to run the wiring to each turret underneath the board, as opposed to directly to the turrets... Is this wise? My Cornford amps are wired that way also.

Here's a pic:
Image

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Re: wires under board

Post by wrea398 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:48 am

Soldering the wires under the board is for looks only. It cleans up the looks of the build a little and looks very nice. My honest opinion is to build it with the wires coming up thru the board and then solder them on top to thier respective turrets. Mainly because you can see your solder joints. It's also easier to work on it later if you need to. Having the solder joints underneath makes it tough. Usually during the build you would cut your wires (a little long), solder them to the underside of the board, cut and bend them to the correct positions and solder them into place. It's very easy to break the wire off of a solder joint when bending them to thier appropriate positions. If you damage a wire/solder joint, its impossible to see after the board is installed. Until you've done a few, keep it easy. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: wires under board

Post by 67Mopar » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:35 pm

wrea398 wrote:Soldering the wires under the board is for looks only. It cleans up the looks of the build a little and looks very nice. My honest opinion is to build it with the wires coming up thru the board and then solder them on top to thier respective turrets. Mainly because you can see your solder joints. It's also easier to work on it later if you need to. Having the solder joints underneath makes it tough. Usually during the build you would cut your wires (a little long), solder them to the underside of the board, cut and bend them to the correct positions and solder them into place. It's very easy to break the wire off of a solder joint when bending them to thier appropriate positions. If you damage a wire/solder joint, its impossible to see after the board is installed. Until you've done a few, keep it easy. Just my 2 cents.
Good tip! My problem is that the board has already been completed, and there are no holes in it to do as you recommend. I also have already installed some of the components. I'm going to use carbon film resistors from Tube Depot. I have enough Mullard "mustard" caps to build 2 x boards also. Maybe I'll build a 100 watt plexi board next? I'm going to try to post a pic here of where I am so far...
Image

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by neikeel » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:04 pm

The way to avoid the problem is to push the stripped back wire into the turret and bend the wire over to hook it in place (there was a really good picture that should be a sticky or in the Wiki) that stops it falling out. The safest way (bit wasteful on wire is to solder the wires in place with the board turned over to get a blob on the onderside, but to avoid breaking the wire when you bend it I suggest that you bend it approximately in the right orientation before you solder.

The hook method and laying the components in the split turret (not feeding the components down inside) is my suggested method and the one I use personally.
Neil

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by 67Mopar » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:01 pm

neikeel wrote:The way to avoid the problem is to push the stripped back wire into the turret and bend the wire over to hook it in place (there was a really good picture that should be a sticky or in the Wiki) that stops it falling out. The safest way (bit wasteful on wire is to solder the wires in place with the board turned over to get a blob on the onderside, but to avoid breaking the wire when you bend it I suggest that you bend it approximately in the right orientation before you solder.

The hook method and laying the components in the split turret (not feeding the components down inside) is my suggested method and the one I use personally.
I've been bending the component ends to a 90 angle, and soldering them into the turrets that won't see a wire connected underneath. I hope it comes out right. The wires are hidden underneath on both of my Cornford amps. I thought a Marshall would look even better wired the same way. Thank you for you expertise... I've never done one of these.

Can I make an 18 watt amp out of this? Does this board have to be used as a 50 watt? I was thinking I could build everything the same - except use Marshall 18 watt transformers. Maybe put a PPIMV? Na!

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by wrea398 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:54 pm

I did it this way as well and it does work. I always feel that I am stressing the joints anyway when do the final cuts and connections to the tube sockets. Even though they may have held, it didn't feel good to me. You just don't know if anything was compromised until you fire it up. If one is bad...the searching begins and most like the board has to come off or tilted up enought hat you could mess up other connections. I also turn the board over to get a good blob onto the underside of the turret. Just make sure all if the stripped wire is placed firmly into the turret with no extra wire showing at all.

I see that your board is not drilled for most of these wires. You could bring the stripped wire all the way up thru the turret and bend it over on top thru the splits. The other parts can be looped around the turrets. All good advice. You just have to get a little experience under your belt until you feel comfortable with all the options. Once the board is mounted just go over the connections with the continuity tester on your multimeter. A good tip for testing the continuity is to place the meter leads on the two farthest points of the connection, (ie. the top of a turret and the actual pin on a tube socket). Don't test solder to solder. The solder could be holding on to the wires just fine but not making a good connection thru the turret or other parts that the wires are connected to. Hope all of this helps.

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by 67Mopar » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:17 pm

These are great tips for sure! Thank you. I'm still debating if I should put this into my 1987S? My amp is totally stock, and I would like to be able to recoup my investment, should I decide to liquidate it. Plus, as it is - it's one of the best sounding Marshall's I've ever played! :D

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by neikeel » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:00 am

67Mopar wrote:These are great tips for sure! Thank you. I'm still debating if I should put this into my 1987S? My amp is totally stock, and I would like to be able to recoup my investment, should I decide to liquidate it. Plus, as it is - it's one of the best sounding Marshall's I've ever played! :D
Keep the 1987S stock

As you are at the moment it is a lead amp. Why not make it with LArMAr PPIMV (unless you have a really good attenuator like an Alex or similar) and as an ealy plexi (shared cathode)?
Neil

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by 67Mopar » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:53 pm

neikeel wrote:
67Mopar wrote:These are great tips for sure! Thank you. I'm still debating if I should put this into my 1987S? My amp is totally stock, and I would like to be able to recoup my investment, should I decide to liquidate it. Plus, as it is - it's one of the best sounding Marshall's I've ever played! :D
Keep the 1987S stock

As you are at the moment it is a lead amp. Why not make it with LArMAr PPIMV (unless you have a really good attenuator like an Alex or similar) and as an ealy plexi (shared cathode)?
I'm not a generally a fan of MV Marshall amps - but I do love the early JCM 800 / Jubilee models. I prefer to use an attenuator (Weber Mass 100). I use a KLON for front-end boost. I run a jumper into inputs 1 & 2... Is this the same as a shared cathode? I use Cornford's for my MV needs. :thumbsup:

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by demonufo » Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:10 pm

The PPIMV's don't really work like master volumes though. They're just useful as another form of attenuation (until you start throttling it right back). Personally I prefer a little bit of both types, if needed at all.
So I like purple, okay!!!!!!

83.7% of all statistics are made up on the spot!

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by 67Mopar » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:56 pm

demonufo wrote:The PPIMV's don't really work like master volumes though. They're just useful as another form of attenuation (until you start throttling it right back). Personally I prefer a little bit of both types, if needed at all.
I think I will stick with the NMV design. I seem to get better tone with a NMV with a good booster pedal. I'd like to add a bit of bottom-end to my KLON...

I want to say that the Metro diagram is incorrectly marked as a "69 50 Watt". The layout would indicate that this is actually a Metro hand-wired version of a 1973 board. This makes it even more tempting to swap-out my board, since the 1987S is a reissue of the '73 .

I may be mistaken here, but I think the '73 used a .68 cap at the presence pot? The 1987S reissue uses a .1 box cap. Can anyone confirm this?

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by neikeel » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:03 am

The 73 used a 0.68uF cap and typically a 25k presence pot and 4k7 resistor.

I think you need to read up on PPIMV - not the same as pre PI (like MV Marshalls).

My fave is a 2 in 1 (see SDMs site) you get best of both worlds.
Neil

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Re: New Brian Haberman 1987 Turret Board Question

Post by demonufo » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:28 pm

The LarMar PPIMV doesn't change the design or circuit of the amp. With the PPIMV dialled back, it has no noticeable effect on the circuit whatsoever.

Honest, it's a good addition to almost any amp. :wink:
So I like purple, okay!!!!!!

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