The great Floyd Rose Big-Block Shootout.

[jbat667]

Since over the past year and a half I've become addicted to FloydUpgrades Big-Blocks of both the Brass and Titanium variety, one of the questions I'm invariably asked is "What do they sound like? What are the differences?" Well, sometimes verbal descriptions fall short; something has to be heard to be truly appreciated, if not felt. It wasn't enough to merely tell someone how much either of them kicked ass over the standard, you really have to hear it and decide for yourself. Telling people even my DRUMMER noticed a difference was a head-turner, true - but I wanted to document it once and for all.



So I decided, since I had all three types lying around (I use the Brass and the Titanium as different flavors for different applications now, and have the originals as paperweights), I have Pro Tools and am only moderately afraid to use it I'd throw together my own sonic shoot out of sorts. I decided to use my Koa Warmoth Strat as the test-bed for the experiment, since she has the most even tone of all my Floyd-equipped guitars.

First order of business was to reinstall the original (eww) standard 37mm block for the "reference riff/MP3". After slapping back on the standard, I recorded two sample riffs, one slightly dirty and one balls out to get a feel for their individual characteristics in regards to open chords, palm muting, and overall dynamics. For this test I used PODfarm(I know, almost blasphemy to mention here, but I only had a day to do the test...lol) and Recabinet - a Marshall Plexi and Soldano emulation both running into the same Recabinet "Green 4x12" with a single 121 mic emulation. I'd then repeat the process with the other two block types- same emulations, same settings, same guitar - different block each time.

Here's the riff(s) with the Standard block:

SoundClick artist: Jay's Gearwhore - page with MP3 music downloads

Once that was done, I also took the opportunity to install the FloydUpgrades Brass Spring Claw and Noiseless spring set for the two "upgraded" riff examples, as I wanted to illustrate the full tone-freak Floyd Rose overhaul process.



Those were quickly swapped out, then it was on to the Brass Block. Here's how that one went:

SoundClick artist: Jay's Gearwhore - page with MP3 music downloads

You can tell in that clip the low end is now seemingly boosted, and the tone is fatter overall. Gone is the dreaded Floyd Rose "thinness" players long complained of, and note transfer seems to have improved as well. The mids seem thicker and the highs seem to have been warmed up as well, without becoming screechy. There's also a noticeable increase in sustain. Definite UPgrade.

Brass alone is impressive, (and one could certainly live with it) but - if you really want to go tonal crackhead with it, Titanium IS the push over the cliff. It is more like Brass' evil cousin. Everything Brass does, it seems to do "one louder". The sustain increase is most dramatic, making notes seem to jump off the fretboard...there's something more... aggressive about the highs too, but it's not at all harsh...check it out:

SoundClick artist: Jay's Gearwhore - page with MP3 music downloads

So now at least no one has to ask me to tell them what the different advantages of the blocks are now...you can hear them for yourselves...

[yngwie308]

jbat667, though not exactly the same being a fixed bridge system, when I upgraded my 1952/56 Les Paul Goldtop to Pigtail hardware, specifically the aluminum ABR-1 TOM, for the usual plated metal type, the brightness increase was remarkable and the Pigtail lightweight tailpiece and steel studs also make a significant contribution. But as the top needed maple plugs where the bridge was somewhat countersunk with the original shallow neck angle, the paint is somewhat thicker on the maple top than without the repairs. So the thicker paint coat allows the lighter bridge to compensate and liven up the tone.
I know this isn't directly related to a Floyd, but I wanted to give an example of a different type guitar/bridge arrangement with similar changes in metals.
Now as far as Original Floyd Roses, I have had experience with gold plated ones, black anodized examples and my latest Floyd type my NOS Gotoh Floyd on my 1993 Washburn SS80 Quilt top.
I first heard of the Big Blocks quite a few years ago, through guitars built by Performance Guitars in California for rocker Warren DeMartini. He used a brass tremolo block and I have read good things about the titanium blocks as well. I have experience with a brass nut on my YJM 2004 Signature Strat, and I know that made a difference and the YJM MK III's as I refer to them, (2007 and up specs), these have the brass construction inserts, threaded for machine screw bolts, to bolt the neck to the body on the Strat, this does make a difference in tuning stability and tone,vibration transfer, though the original reason was to convert a three bolt early seventies Strat micro tilt neck, to the stonger 4-bolt arrangement.
I have read several reviews of the various Big Blocks, some say the weight is noticeable in the feel of the guitar balance, though in reality, this wouldn't be that much difference. Obviously the titanium, which I have experience of in my past aerospace/microelectronics career.
It is great that you have done the research on these and you make a convincing argument for the use of these metals in the Floyd Rose system.
I know what people say about the thinness of this system, though body woods become even more critical with the OFR, than the Fender trem system, especially in the case of EVH when on the early albums, Ed changed to the Floyd from the Fender system.
Great work on the clips, one day I plan a Performance Guitars special build to my own specs..
The one difference I have to mention is Gary Moore and his work with his Custom Shop Charvels in the 1986-87 period. Especially the Wild Frontier live show, for example. Gary gets great sustain and very subtle nuances out of a stock OFR on these alder bodied guitars, with a single active EMG81, and Marshall amp slaving, plus mega Roland outboard gear and a Dimension D, plus Tube Screamer. Still on the track the Loner, with the guitar volume down, he still has great sustain.
Great job and frankly I felt the Premier Guitar review for example of the Big Block and others I have read, they weren't entirely convinced about he upgrade..

Still one of the best eighties Floyd playing tunes I have heard...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akwXoZ5T ... playnext=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The intro to this song also is one of my favorite Floyd tones from this concert as well as Military Man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_epGbAy5 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
yngwie308

[jbat667]

It is great that you have done the research on these and you make a convincing argument for the use of these metals in the Floyd Rose system.

Thanks. Glad you like. I figured it'd be great if there were some comparison clips out there, and since I have both types, figured why not?

Funny related note - did a fly-in gig at a Charity festival in my hometown over the summer, 80s band reunion thing...and ended up playing through the "house" rig everyone else did that day - a solid-state Marshall MG-something(?) halfstack Fortunately I'd brought along the Koa Warmoth used for the test with the Titanium Big-Block installed (and for the record, a Duncan TB-11 Custom Custom and STK-S1N). NOT a fan of solid-state amps (doubt anyone here is...lol) but - I firmly believe due to the block - got an almost workable tone, and plowed through it. After the set, the other players of the day (who universally hated playing through that amp) were coming up to me going "That thing sounds amazing even through that amp - what kind of pickups are in it?". It wasn't just the pickups!

Another classic quote: "Dude, that thing does NOT sound like a guitar with a Floyd on it...!"

[spaceace76]

thanks for the comparison! definitely food for thought if i decide to pick up a floyd someday. the stock block definitely doesn't fit the bill, but the other two seem to have very characteristic sounds, i.e. you can match them up with a certain wood/pickup combo. thanks again!

[vanhalen5150]

The one question I have is about the titanium. Although a stronger metal, does it create more mass? I'm thinking it would provide less, even though its the same size. Ever pick up a titanium golf club? Strong but light as a feather. $450 as well... Perhaps I need my grade 11 physics book.

[jbat667]

The one question I have is about the titanium. Although a stronger metal, does it create more mass? I'm thinking it would provide less, even though its the same size. Ever pick up a titanium golf club? Strong but light as a feather. $450 as well... Perhaps I need my grade 11 physics book.

Actually, haven't literally weighed them, but to hold the two of them in your hand yes- the Titanium feels ever-so-slightly lighter than the Brass. Be that as it may, they both still sound amazing. Like I said, one could totally live with just a Brass one, but the Ti blocks are MONSTER tone generators, particularly when it comes to lead playing - the note density and liquidity is a thing of beauty. I love them both, but the Brass is killer for thick rhythms. They each have their merits.


And the Ti blocks are usually on sale for less than list...

[yngwie308]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It depends what the titanium is alloyed with, but it is definitely a high performance metal, and usually way more expensive than brass, at least in a high-tech, or military application. How are the blocks priced in relation to each other?
yngwie308

[vanhalen5150]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium
It depends what the titanium is alloyed with, but it is definitely a high performance metal, and usually way more expensive than brass, at least in a high-tech, or military application. How are the blocks priced in relation to each other?
yngwie308

Funny, they have gone on sale since yesterday! Check out the original price on the titanium!

http://floydupgrades.com/index.php?main ... x&cPath=66" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[spaceace76]

[jbat667]

thanks for the comparison! definitely food for thought if i decide to pick up a floyd someday. the stock block definitely doesn't fit the bill, but the other two seem to have very characteristic sounds, i.e. you can match them up with a certain wood/pickup combo. thanks again!

That's something I'm really interested in, and now that I've tried both types in my main guitar (the Koa one) I'm pretty sure I can figure out which one's going to work for what wood and application (rhythm, lead) the guitar is primarily gonna be used for....



For example, old picture, but check out the top row - in the my original baby, the Black one (Ash) I'm currently using a Brass block; it's used mostly for Drop-D recording, and just excels at BEEF.

Middle one's history (but re-using that old fave Charvel neck on a Musikraft Ash Charvel-copy body later), though I'm building another S/H pickup one currently to replace it - it's going to be a 1-piece ash body and will be getting the Ti (at first at least) to be the Ash evil twin of the Koa one. IMO the Ti has this liquid, authoritative lead voicing and feel over the Brass, but still dishes out a nearly-comparable serving of the BEEF for the rhythms.

However - and please ignore the wank-factor of this goof track as it goes to illustrate- the lead tone of the Brass block is not to be underestimated by ANY means...this is the Black Charvel mutt I described as my "rhythm" beast...

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8348585

I mean, the opening chord sounds like a thunder-clap...lurves it....!

[yngwie308]

http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brass Big Block:
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
jbat667 hope you like these, are you on USA Charvels at all?
yngwie308

[jbat667]

http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=178
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brass Big Block:
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
jbat667 hope you like these, are you on USA Charvels at all?
yngwie308

Oh, WOW! Love Warren's Python Charvels. Great post links.

I've posted on the Jackson/Charvel forum for years...I lurk here more than post usually...lol been toying with the idea of building a Plexi kit for years.

But I'm constantly tinkering around trying to improve my guitar's tone, and build 'em to suit my needs. Had read about Big Blocks, finally tried one of FloydUpgrades and was hooked. Haven't tried a Performance one, think they did 'em first? But don't think they even offer Titanium ones?

[Kapo_Polenton]

H/S rear routed strats are my fav! What is comparable to those performance single coils in Demartinni's snakeskin anyway? A bit off topic but I am very interested as the HS-3 is nice for fendery chime but needs more balls for me.

[jbat667]

H/S rear routed strats are my fav! What is comparable to those performance single coils in Demartinni's snakeskin anyway? A bit off topic but I am very interested as the HS-3 is nice for fendery chime but needs more balls for me.

Glad you like...I have a couple like that, and more on the way. Love them too.
Not to contribute to the derail but my S/H Strats have Duncan STK-S1Ns in them. The match well with the Duncan Humbuckers. Tried HS-3s, but I like the Classic Stacks better. The Dimarzio Virtual Vintage series kicks butt too, may put a Heavy Blues in the neck slot of the next one.

Duncan just came out with a new signature Yngwie (yep, after 20 years he crossed over) pickup that's supposed to kill the HS-3 and YJM, interested to check them out...

Also did a full rhythm track over the weekend with the Koa Strat with the Ti block that was a double of a track I'd done with the same set up but PRE Brass claw and noiseless springs...sounds a little brighter in an A/B comparison to my ears. Even the claw contributes to the note-transference!

[yngwie308]

Yeah Warren uses the SD single coils in his Performance guitars, I will have to look it up the exact one, but it may well be a stacked one..
The Snakeskin guitars aren't actually Warrens's guitars, but very similar. Warren has bare wood under the skin, he found that was the best way to maintain the tone transfer between body and neck..
http://warrendemartini.net/forum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
yngwie308