Hendrix's BOG Fuzz Face ?

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:49 am

Hi, This has been up before I believe. I cant remember.Anyway's, on BOG's or the other tunes from those 4 shows, Jimi got what I hear as being a smoother germanium transistor type fuzz. Alot say it was sillicon or hybrid germ./sillicon. I do know that pictures show the Fuzz Face was red and had 'strat' knobs. Maybe that was done to denote that that particular unit was indeed 'modded' by maybe Roger Mayer ? Anyway's, I know that his actual amp tone was different on those shows (another thread about this) which could have had an influence. What do you guy's think his Fuzz Face was on those shows ?

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:09 am

The major argument for it being a silicone fuzz on BOG is the position of the wah which if placed before would feedback in a TYPICAL setup. The other argument being silicone fuzz faces were the norm at that period of time.

Now the facts...I have seen 2 gut shots of a verified Jimi exp fuzz faces..both stock germanium and one of the fuzz faces was red. They were both beaten up pretty bad and obviously antique. Saying that , there was a so called verified Jimi fuzz face on ebay years ago that looked brand spanking new that was silicone.

Roger mayer is a class tech ..he can easily make germaniums work in that order and there a few methods that work,there are a zillion possible mods that can be done to a fuzz face. Roger himself has said that many of his custom jobs were placed inside fuzz face enclosures. So anything is possible.

My guess would be a germanium fuzz with an input resistor type of circuit a la fulltone 69....and a not to common type of octavia pedal..Roger says his octavia's were constanatly evolving , so were talking a one off pedal gone forever. I'm sure tho reasonable facsimile tones can be had with silicone based fuzz faces that have been built with the tone in mind.

carlygtr56 · Post by **carlygtr56** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:07 pm

It was RM's Axis circuit or variation.
The giveaway, besides statements from RM on the subject, is how the wah/fuzz react with each other when both are on.
It doesn't howl like a typical si BC-108c FF, and the BOG fuzz has way more gain/fuzz than any ge FF.

Here's my Axis-

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInf ... ID=5691678

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:37 am

Great clip ! I definatly heard qualities of Axis Bold As Love, with a bit of BOG's too. I agree about the gain being more, it's so smooth though,I think it must have been a similar variation. The Axis album and those bbc tunes must have been another 'axis' fuzz variation. Those have alot more 'tooth' and brightness than the BOG's tone. Jimi also used this 'strat' knob fuzz face at woodstock. The difference between any hybrid germ/sillicone FF, in terms of gain, brightness, etc, could simply be the actual resistor type (bc 108, nkt 275 pnp,etc), and gain of them. I am gonna start experimenting on this.

45auto · Post by **45auto** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:15 am

team fuzz alright!

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:29 pm

There are a zillion mods for fuzz faces ..one you can squeeze out many times more gain than a typical rm axis.... I remember trying one of those heavy metal gain mods for a fuzz face and litterly got sustain that lasted for minutes and mainipulative feedback that went on for 17 minutes.

Most fuzz faces were built with unity gain in mind...and some frown heavily on anything that has more than that. You know magic ,mojo and all that stuff.

Just so you can see how things evolve from what roger m called the octavio..all his pedals were called octavio at that time..check out a tycobrahe octavia (rm octavio copy) schematic and then compare it too a axis fuzz schematic..you will see how it all came to be. Somewhere in the mess (design) is possibly the tone your looking for.

Oh by the way ..nice clip but an octavia would nail it even more.

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:34 am

I re-did a JD JH fuzz to germanium

The Newer Jim Dunlop Hendrix Fuzz Face is built around the BC108 silicon transistor.
I have a Chicago Iron Tycobrahe Octavian + that sounds spot on BOG.
I also have a Jordan BossTone although not BOG sounding has more of an AYE sound.

jstate · Post by **jstate** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:04 pm

carl - i know you have both, so tell me, what do you think sounds closer to the woodstock/bog/berkeley red with strat knob fuzz - the RM Axis or the KR Gypsy? And is the KR NPN Silicon/PNP Silicon or NPN Silicon/PNP Germanium?

and on the subjest of jimi's bog fuzz, it was the same as his woodstock and berkeley fuzz, the red face with strat knobs. RM claims it was the axis fuzz (the same one as the axis recordings though? i doubt it) and it seems obvious to me it was modded by RM, because it is definitely not an all Ge fuzz, and definitely not a stock Si fuzz, either. It must be either Si/Ge or NPN Si/PNP Si, like the current Axis being sold is. It probably is NPN/PNP Si.

I wish RM would cut out all the 'new and imroved' bull and just give us the real mccoy. I understand why he doesn't, but still. I would like nothing better than to meet him so I could pick his brain about the red with strat knob fuzz. I've come close to emailing him about the strat knob fuzz several times. does anyone know anything else about it?

carlygtr56 · Post by **carlygtr56** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:55 pm

jstate wrote:carl - i know you have both, so tell me, what do you think sounds closer to the woodstock/bog/berkeley red with strat knob fuzz - the RM Axis or the KR Gypsy? And is the KR NPN Silicon/PNP Silicon or NPN Silicon/PNP Germanium?

and on the subjest of jimi's bog fuzz, it was the same as his woodstock and berkeley fuzz, the red face with strat knobs. RM claims it was the axis fuzz (the same one as the axis recordings though? i doubt it) and it seems obvious to me it was modded by RM, because it is definitely not an all Ge fuzz, and definitely not a stock Si fuzz, either. It must be either Si/Ge or NPN Si/PNP Si, like the current Axis being sold is. It probably is NPN/PNP Si.

I wish RM would cut out all the 'new and imroved' bull and just give us the real mccoy. I understand why he doesn't, but still. I would like nothing better than to meet him so I could pick his brain about the red with strat knob fuzz. I've come close to emailing him about the strat knob fuzz several times. does anyone know anything else about it?

The KR and Axis are both great. the KR covering the smoother side of things. It works with a wah in front of it as well.
The Axis is more bright and cutting. It really does sound like some of the fuzz tones on the Axis album.

I don't know what trannys are in the KR.

Here's some info. According to RM, Jimi had two red Fuzz Faces. The differences were in the knobs and color of the lettering.
You have to remember the stuff he made/modded for Jimi was always experimental. Like none of the Octavios were exactly the same, likely neither were the fuzzes.

I did meet RM in '84!! Long before the internet. In NYC. First at his local watering hole at 10AM, the his high rise. i picked his brain as much as I could. Basically he stuck his mods in the round FF enclosures.

Anyway, I believe the closest we can get to the great BOG, Berkeley, Woodstock fuzz, is either the KR or the Axis. Are they exact? No, but they are close.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:34 pm

When you guys iron this out lemme know. Personally BOG is the most elusive and favorite tone. When the fuzz is stomped in at 1:30 into Message of Love, I dont think I can think of a better strait fuzz sound out there. It sounds stomped strait in at full volume but I remember reading that some of the mods were likely a different input impedance to mimic the rolled back volume. And Machine Gun is Machine Gun. Before you can even think of fuzzes you have to nail a Vibe.

Hendrixnut07 · Post by **Hendrixnut07** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:07 am

jstate wrote:I would like nothing better than to meet him so I could pick his brain about the red with strat knob fuzz. I've come close to emailing him about the strat knob fuzz several times. does anyone know anything else about it?

Its funny you should mention this, I had the same question awhile back and after talking with Carlygtr I emailed him and this was his response:

Thankyou for your question. In
concern to Jimi's red fuzz face with the white knobs, he had two of them
from photographical evidence.

The red ff used at Woodstock had the white stencil lettering "fuzz face".
The other FF used at BOG and Berkeley, in which i believe to be the same
unit, bore a white knob similar two the two as seen on the Woodstock unit
but had black "fuzz face" stenciling. This unit had a differing knob which
appears to be a chrome plated plastic type knob, or it was actually a metal
hi-fi knob of some kind. Something to fit the pot shaft in which was used in
that particular unit.

Jimi had many FF shells of the same color and i know Roger did not really
pay attention much as to which FF Jimi would use for any given gig. He would
just grab what he wanted to use- and go.

As you can hear, at any of the infamous gigs, the sonic detail is not that
of a normal stock Silicon FF of the time. This much can be deciphered.

The Axis as used on Axis Bold was configured in many ways, and was. With the
live recorded sounds one cannot refute the fact that essentially Jimi used
the design live.

It's impossible to know which actual configuration of Axis, or modified
distortion- was used of Roger's, but rest assured that it was derivative of
the basic frame or the original design and tailored toward a certain
delivery.

Play your Axis in anger, and your question is a good one. I have spoken to
Roger about this before. Be assured that i have provided the only answers in
which probably can be derived for you. John.

Good Guest · Post by **Good Guest** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:38 am

The Axis as used on Axis Bold was configured in many ways, and was. With the live recorded sounds one cannot refute the fact that essentially Jimi used the design live.
It's impossible to know which actual configuration of Axis, or modified
distortion- was used of Roger's, but rest assured that it was derivative of
the basic frame or the original design and tailored toward a certain
delivery.

There you go a modified and tone tailored derivitave of some kind ...but probably not what you buy of the shelf.

I guess you got be "Experienced" to know.

jstate · Post by **jstate** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:38 pm

interesting.

well, i guess the answer to the REAL question is that as long as you can get a good enough fuzz, you can make it happen with good playing and an open mind.

and carl, youre absolutely right about the fuzzes/octavios constantly changing. the AYE octave is very different from the 'axis' octavia which sounds different from the BOG octavio. And the current models are different from those...

Xplorer · Post by **Xplorer** » Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:48 am

... and how does it sound when you blend two different fuzz ? one germanium, and one silicon, not too much intensity to let the original signal alive...

doesn't this boost the signal as well as giving a smooth germanium fuzz tone ?
i've finished a multi fuzz face, that will allow me to swap among as much different caps i want for in, as much transistors i want for in, and as much ( ... ) for out. silicon, germanium .... so many combinations.

but the circuit isn't based on the axis fuzz; i should try the same wit an axis fuzz circuit; and then, maybe try an helios console circuit, a bit closer to the axis or tycobrahe circuits, with a third transistor. Coony reported his tests before, about the axis fuzz-helios console module-tycobrahe. (dont know how yet, to have this extra circuit part, with the third transistor, with a switch )
i'll try with some arbiter fuzz in front of it, silicon . or after it.

well, in some other words, i'll try to build a multi circuit fuzz, where i'll can swap caps and transistors, maybe with some rotary switchs and trimmers everywhere ... giving the choice instantly for 10 or 20 transistors, and 10 or 20 caps each, i'm sure i'll get mad and crazy with that, to find any logical method, but i might have some chances to get close to this BOG fuzz ( ? )

i'm thinking that if i get close to this kind of saturation, i'll can understand how only after trying. then i'll isolate a circuit configuration from the big big circuit, where there are thousands of possibilitys.

i'll test it with a stock superlead 69, a megavibe for some parts, maybe an RM octavia if needed, a vox 846 if needed. 5 different strats, if needed ; )

What are the latest news and thoughts about this machine gun fuzz ? what makes your sound the closests , everyone please ?
simplicity often hides behind complexity ... and for that part, it's maybe a very simple circuit.

i think that in this big test circuit, i should have maybe three cores : i mean, different types of fuzz circuits that might have been used, and then try them with different values, combine them with different positions. But what do you think ? what kind of cores ? arbiter type with the axis type, and the helios type ? what other kind of circuit ( i mean, overall, speaking about the main characteristic of each circuit, that RM used to work with )

and according to you, what type of transistors should i test and try with it ? ( i mean, the transistors available at the time, that have some great chances to be in the game )

i'd like to know the difference between an RM axis fuzz, and a gypsy fuzz ... do you know what type of transistors ?
cheers,
Adrien

yladrd61 · Post by **yladrd61** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:30 pm

I am not a big fan of Jim Dunlop stomp boxes which usually look like the originals on the outside and nothing like them on the inside. However they have a winner with the new JH Fuzz Face. It is biased too hot but can be tuned with pots under the circuit board. It comes really close the the BOG Machine Gun fuzz tone with a good strat, uni vibe clone and a Marshall Super Lead .

Metropoulos Forum

Hendrix's BOG Fuzz Face ?

Hendrix's BOG Fuzz Face ?

Re: Hendrix's BOG Fuzz Face ?

Re: Hendrix's BOG Fuzz Face ?