Lower B+ 1987 build

Share your home builds, knock offs and ground up customs.
Post Reply
JimmyR
Senior Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by JimmyR » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:49 am

I haven't been here for ages - I've built quite a few amps using the wonderful Metroamp parts. But i just built another which some of you may be interested in. I used the Metro 50W steel chassis and a JTM45 board, because I've always wanted to build an amp with one of those old-style boards with all the holes drilled through. :-)

But this time I went with a Merc Magnetics set of trannies - a 10 Henry choke, a 50W plexi O/T and a lower B+ 50W P/T. I'm getting right on 400VDC on the plates, which is significantly lower than any of my previous plexi builds. I wanted this amp to be easier to use at lower volumes, as a 50W plexi is so loud!

My use is probably very different from most of you here. I play jump blues and rockabilly with Gretsches, and these days prefer 1x12 combos because I am over lugging heavy amps to gigs. I have been using my own tweed amp-based designs for a few years now - mainly EL34 tweeds based on the 5F6-A or 5E7 circuits. I use beefed up P/Ts so I can run EL34s. Well this time it's all Marshall.

I don't have the cab yet, so I have been testing it through 1x12 tweed cabs with either a Celestion Gold or a G12H Creamback. Cranked it howls of course, but at lower volumes it really sounds beautiful. Warm, clear, punchy - like a tighter, clearer tweed. The low E string on my P90 Gibson 335 sounds like a piano string. Very happy! And I don't need any bright cap on the bright volume pot - it's plenty bright without it. It's a big, fat, warm, wonderful sound. I think the lower B+ and no bright cap lets me use it at a lower volume than my other 50W builds. The sound difference is subtler than I thought it might be, but I love it anyway.

Image

Image

Lbrown3743
Senior Member
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:04 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Land of The Rising Sun

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by Lbrown3743 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:55 pm

Looks awesome. Soundclips?

danman
Senior Member
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:09 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by danman » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:18 pm

Very nice looking build! I also prefer the lower B+ on my two 50 watt builds.

Haze13
Senior Member
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Israel. Bat-Yam

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by Haze13 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:43 pm

Very clean job! NextGen Sozos?

JimmyR
Senior Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by JimmyR » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:50 am

Yup - next Gen Sozos. I've been playing this amp a lot lately and really, it must be one of my favourite builds already.

And it's nice to know I'm not the only one trying these lower B+ trannies. I have used them in some tweed builds too, if only so that I can use SS rectification rather than a tube.

User avatar
VelvetGeorge
Site Owner
Posts: 7233
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2003 5:12 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: The Murder Mitten
Contact:

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by VelvetGeorge » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:17 am

On the lower B+ 50's it can be cool to bypass one of the 10k 2w resistors. This way the preamp gets normal high voltage but the output section is lower.

George
Check out Plexi Replicas for my personal amp builds...
Image

Roe
Senior Member
Posts: 5056
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:36 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Drontheim. Norwegen
Contact:

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by Roe » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:25 am

VelvetGeorge wrote:On the lower B+ 50's it can be cool to bypass one of the 10k 2w resistors. This way the preamp gets normal high voltage but the output section is lower.

George
yes and reduce the screen resistors carefully
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Super 100 amps: 1202-119 & 1202-84
JTM45 RS OT JTM50 JMP50 1959/2203/34/39

Haze13
Senior Member
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:33 am
Just the numbers in order: 13492
Location: Israel. Bat-Yam

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by Haze13 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:16 pm

Do you bias a power tubes to 70% of their power on lower B+ or hotter/colder?

JimmyR
Senior Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by JimmyR » Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:54 pm

Well this one is biased at around 70%. I haven't really had too much opportunity to really crank it, but that's not how I use my amps most of the time anyway.

Hey George I was wondering about that. When I went back and looked at a schematic I had drawn up directly from an '82 2204 I had years ago it had a single 10K dropping resistor instead of the pair. I decided to use a pair to drop the B+ to the preamp just to hear what it sounded like.

Which makes me also wonder - why did they use two 10k (or 8K2) in series? Why not use a single 22K or something? Was it to prevent the resistor overheating?

Roe
Senior Member
Posts: 5056
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:36 pm
Just the numbers in order: 7
Location: Drontheim. Norwegen
Contact:

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by Roe » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:40 am

Haze13 wrote:Do you bias a power tubes to 70% of their power on lower B+ or hotter/colder?
colder usually, although I will use my ears and eyes (watching for redplating)
http://www.myspace.com/20bonesband" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.myspace.com/prostitutes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Super 100 amps: 1202-119 & 1202-84
JTM45 RS OT JTM50 JMP50 1959/2203/34/39

JimmyR
Senior Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by JimmyR » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:44 am

Would you recommend I should bias a little cooler too? What would be the reason?

User avatar
neikeel
Senior Member
Posts: 7231
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:31 am
Location: Suffolk, England

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by neikeel » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:58 am

JimmyR wrote:
Which makes me also wonder - why did they use two 10k (or 8K2) in series? Why not use a single 22K or something? Was it to prevent the resistor overheating?
Originally 1watt carbon comps @8k2 for between screens and pi and 10k between v3 and v2. Later carbon film Iskras (later Pihers and some grey MOs). With one big R too much heat dissipated, high predicted failures.

With higher preamp voltages you get a clearer brighter peramp with more headroom so if you like that but browner response from the power amp I am sure the suggestions above are the way to go. I had a toggle switch JMP50 lead with a 395v B+. Sounded best with a single 10k first in line (of course had a 10k between v3 and v2 and another between v2 and v1.
I that it is something we often neglect (or at least I do :oops: ) is the optimum voltage for a preamp valve to wirk at its best, we obsess about output valve plate voltage and bias assuming that when that is correct everyhting else downstream will automatically be correct too.

Wonder if George has an ideal preamp tube target voltage in a plexi? :wink:
Neil

danman
Senior Member
Posts: 1099
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:09 pm
Just the numbers in order: 13492

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by danman » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:33 pm

I went with the single 10k dropper myself after trying it both ways during the build of my 1986 clone. Really liked the increased clarity.

JimmyR
Senior Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by JimmyR » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:06 am

Good call guys! I went with the single 10K after the choke and yes, it sounds even better - clearer and maybe even a bit more sparkly or something. I also cooled down the bias a smidge. All in all it actually sounds fuller and better, which is quite an achievement.

The clean sounds are just amazing. I can't crank it just yet, so I'm using my favourite dirtbox and it is one of the best sounds I have gotten so far. FWIW I must have been measuring the B+ unloaded before - now I have 379VDC on the plates and I'm biased at around 42mA. It is just a beautiful sound. Better than any Matchless, Vox or Fender!

And this is all through a single Celestion 12" gold and a tiny cab. Such a big sound. I can't wait for my cab to arrive - this amp will be gigged.

JimmyR
Senior Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:55 am

Re: Lower B+ 1987 build

Post by JimmyR » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:59 am

Ah, ok, I get it now... Just been playing it "cranked". I have a Gibson Luther Dickinson 335, which is based on a '59 335 but with dogear P90s and a bigsby. The P90s are low-wind - very clear but still with plenty of chunk when needed. If I link the channels and turn the volumes up to all of 3 I get all the dirt I need. Louder than I would gig with, but what a sound!

The bass strings still ring like a piano but the wound strings howl. Glorious. Turning it up louder is probably a little unkind to a single 12" speaker - and my neighbours. It just gets dirtier and a little messy. But what an amp...

I am surprised a little at how early the amp gets dirty. I shouldn't be, because that was the whole point of using a lower B+ P/T. I think it surprises me because the amp doesn't get saggy or anything before it starts breaking up. On a Fender the tone would be starting to lose it a bit. Not here. It holds together and barks.

How cool that because of people like George and MM we can build amps like this. :worthy:

Post Reply