First post! Getting into amp building. Hot rodded Super Lead

[fretwizard]

Hello Everybody! This is my first post!
I've recently bought an Egnater Rebel 30 head and during my search for info about tube amps maintenance I came across this forum which seems full of knowledgeable people!

Like many people I love 80s sound and brown sound, hot rodded plexi etc. I sometime mod the wirings in my guitars and do simple soldering work and I'm getting pretty decent at it so I thought at some point I could embark in a DIY amp build.
I'll take this very slowly/carefully and I wont start immediately, maybe next year, but I thought I could bump this thread with some questions when I need. I just need to have a clear idea of what I wanna do and if it's worth it.

I live in London UK so I'm gonna try to get the parts here in Europe for cost reasons.

My goal is to make a 50W Super Lead that could possibly include most of the brown/80s sound mods if possible (lee-jose-levi-caswell etc). Maybe I exaggerate. Anyway I've seen many thread threads about his kind of amp here So I'm sure it's the right place.

The first question is: What chassis? Mots of the 50W chassis I've seen are for JTM45. Would that fit? Also Weber amps makes a JMP 1987 kit.
Second question: What circuit? Obviously the poer would change the sound so would it still be valid to use a JMP 1959 circuit? Is the 1987 the same circuit?

Bye!

R

[Homebelly]

this forum is a great resource to learn about amp building in general and building marshall's in particular.
There are a couple of threads about the differences in circuits, so i'll leave it up to you to do a search for those.
The best method is to use google and type some thing like "Marshall 1959 V 1987" or some variation, most of the time the top hits will be plexi palace or the metro forum. Both offer great information.

My next piece of advice for you wanting to build an amp would be to buy a kit.
At this point you could do a lot worse than give ceriatone a look see.
Nik is making some killer kits for most of the marshall amp circuits including one or two based on the jose and s.i.r amps.
I would start there. Build one of Niks amps and then use it as a starting block to mod the hell out of it.
If you do go with Nik, email him and ask if he can send you a kit, if he is good with that, ask for a kit with out the transformers, then pick up your own from with in the UK. Not because Niks iron is no good, but really just because the shipping on that weight will cost you as much, and probably more, than sourcing your own iron.
If you reach the stage where you want to build from the ground up and source your own parts, then do a search for SDM amps.
SDM is a regular on this forum and has a site with a whole bunch of very cool layouts and some schem's that you can use as a start for your own ground up build. You can then start at Valvestorm.com getting all the bits and bobs you will need.

Ultimately though..
Have fun..
AND HAVE AT IT!

[Roe]

do you want a 50w or a superlead? I recommend the latter

[neikeel]

Another victim!

You need to think what you are going ot use the amp for. Although I have the whole arsenal ('66, '67, '68, '69 100w Superleads, '68 x2 and 1987/2204 50watters with >10 cabs and a couple of JTM45s, AC30 etc) I find that my 18watters are capable of great tones at more sensible volumes. Last week we did a ball for 350 people and although I took a 100w and 4x12 with attenuator I got the best sounds from the 18w clone.
In the UK you have Ampmaker who makes a PP18 watter with space for an extra preamp tube for cascaded gain mods. Use this with a pair of decent speakers you will be able to get the brown sound at sensible volumes. My 18w clone with a pair of prerola 20w celestions when turned up to 10 on the trem channel sounds just like my original '68 plexi - just you can be in the same room without deafening yourself.
Any of the above amps can sound great but usually unattenuated. To get great tone with an attenuator or any of the master volumes will always be a compromise. If you need the volume then Homebelly's suggestions are good ones. Although if you want a 50w kit to build I can supply you with a complete one for what it cost me (I am in Suffolk). I have far too many projects on the go (my wife tells me ) so letting one go will earn me major brownie points (I have a couple of 4x12s I can let go cheap too!).

[AJW]

I don't think Ceriatone is an option anymore: http://www.ceriatone.com/tlbrBorderSub/ ... 202011.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Homebelly]

Like i said, if you email Nik he will probably still sell you any of the amps as a kit.

[fretwizard]

I find that my 18watters are capable of great tones at more sensible volumes. Last week we did a ball for 350 people and although I took a 100w and 4x12 with attenuator I got the best sounds from the 18w clone.
.

Interesting! Though I thought that a 18w with EL84 would sound different compared to 50w EL34 with matched OT etc.
I'm not in a band at the moment and I don't need much volume but this might change in the future... I would use that amp for vintage and 80s tone anyway.
I did find Ampmaker, but their amps don't have EQ controls... strange.

R

[fretwizard]

Long time...

I made up my mind. Since Ceriatone is selling kits again, I think I will go with the Plexi 100w kit.
I learned from the forum that I could get a head cabinet from Chris of ampmaker. I think I'll get it Purple

Their base pack 1 kit is $400 plus shipment, which would be about 62 bucks for UK.
"All components with assembled board, front plate, rear plate, and chassis. No OT, no PT, no choke and no tubes."

Now I need some advice from you guys...

I need good Iron alternatives. I searched the forum but I only found brands which seem to be based in US:
Mercury, Marstran, M3rr3n aud10. And then I found ClassicTone by Magnetic Components which apparently had good reviews here.

sam vilo, formerly know as toneiseverything on youtube, is a amp repairman in Finland. He posts almost daily videos where he play the amps he's tweaking/repairing/modding. He uses Marstran for replacement and he has an AMAZING TONE.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mva8No3 ... ature=plcp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you think ClassicTone Iron is worth the shipping? For a 100w set the cost is more than twice the transformers but the sound clips recorded by Granger sound amazing and very close to the expensive Mercury OT...

Also I wanted to use a standup PT, and Ceriatone's chassis is made for that. I thought I could find an European alternative for that too, supposing Ceriatone can sell me the pack1 minus the chassis (i still haven't asked them).

So far I've checked TAD and TubeTown but the both make a chassis 'laydown' PT ...

Looking forward for the replies!
Keep on rocking!

[Homebelly]

I cant comment on classic tone other than to say i have heard nothing but praise and raves about how good they are and how much better they are when comparing price against mercury and so on.. Having said that, if its a marshall i would go with marstran every time.. I've used marstran in every build i have done in one form or another, be it the whole set ot just OT's in EL34 dumble builds..

Also.. give Nik at C-Tone a holla.. he can do great deals on Mercury and might have a connection at Hayboer as well...

[fretwizard]

I see, but even if he could get Mercury iron cheaper for me, ho much more convenient would it be compared to ClassicTone?
I guess the weight/size are similar, so would be the shipping cost...
I know builders can get a lower price when they order a batch but probably Ceriatone doesn't order so many that price would be as low as CT.

I don't really know how that really works....

Anyway I wasn't being accurate about shipping costs.

If I get a ClassicTone 100w plexi set from Triode USA, cost with shipment would be a bit lower than the iron price, not higher.
I checked a set at Mojotone (Heyboer right?), the shipping is just $10 cheaper.

Total cost for ClassicTone would be about $80 cheaper anyway. $324 vs $401 including shipping to UK.

[stef]

The best hot rodded marshall specs (brown sound and much more than that) is Rockstah's mod5. Listen to efraser68 's jcm800 clips (soundclick and youtube)... it's a 50watt marshall top

[fretwizard]

Does anybody know a Europe alternative for 100w plexi chassis with upright PT?

TAD and tube town only make a laydown version.
Nik from Ceriatone just replied to my email, he told me he could skip the chassis, although it wouldnt make much difference in the shipping cost.

The thing is though, in 2012, UK VAT has increased from %17.5 to %20.
Import charge might be more that 20%, so if I could save money on that it would be better.

[Haze13]

Hi! Last week I completed JCM 800 50 watt on JTM45 chassis and I ordered parts from TubeDepot.
Chassis:
I bought undrilled aluminum chassis and did all the holes by my self. The good thing about it is that it's less expensive, and you can decide what parts you want to choose. If you are after a stand up transformer, in that case it's even better for you, because you don't need to cut that big square hole for a power transformer, just some small round holes.
Transformers:
Just like I sad, every thing (almost) is from tube depot. Power transformer and choke labeled as Mojotone, Output is from classic tone. Even if it's cheaper to buy this one from the ClassicTone site than from TubeDepot - I like this tranny. So if you are on a tight budget - go for it.
Caps: You need good caps in signal path and Sozo is a good sounding cap for Marshall. I used SoZo Mustard Standard Capacitors (bought from them directly), and don't regret it. Others ( 0.68uf bypass caps on cathods for exemple) can be any brand you want. I used Mallory 150, only 2 though... If it's don't effect the tone, why to spend lots of money on this? Cut every corner you can, in the end you can save almost 100$ (transfers and bills included) on it.
For a Can caps I choose F&T. Germany made.
Resistors: I used 1% metal film CMF-60 mill-spec 1/2 watt 500v rated resistors and 3 watt metal oxide (10k x 3 pices, and 220k - one pice) and my amp isn't noisy. Tube depot has very good price on CMF-60's... Even less than on standart blue metall films.
Potentiometers: CTS and only them. Don't waste your money on Alpha pots. Today they are cheaper, tomorrow you will looking for CTS when Alpha will start scratching.
Wire: 20 Ga. High-Temperature PVC Wire for every thing and Mogami for shielding on V1. Shield FIRST stage as much as you can, don't make my mistake.
For a Fuse Holders I don't recommend the Marshall Syle types. Use a standart type that you can find on ebay with a free shipping. 2 pices for 1$! Marshalls are almost 4$ for a pice.
For a power entry module (jack for ac power cord) - IEC AC Receptacle, Snap-In Mount. On some sites it will cost you 5-6 bucks, on ebay 2$ and free hipping. Little by little you can get to those 100 bucks...
Tube sockets, gutar and speaker jucks (amphenol - 1$, cliff - 2.45$), screws, standoffs the whole hardware should be relible and not fancy. If you will take your time and look over every part, it will help you to save the money.
Take a look at Tubedepot or Mojotone, they have good sales some times. If you don't want their "Iron", some other parts are worth the price.
And may be you should look at 50 watt... Earlier brake up (more distortion) on low volumes. For a home use even this is TOO MUCH.
Small tip for a turret board...
I wasn't using "specialized tools" for them. It took me 2 min to set them on the board after the drilling. I used just a drill bit and this:

[Haze13]

Pleace correct me if I did mistake somewere or sugested the wrong thing, just saying what I saw or did.

[fretwizard]

I see, what you mean.

Unfortunately the chassis I've found from germany, drilled or not, it's the same price. Plus I would have to buy a drill bit set and other tools, which I don't have. And I didn't want to accumulate tools that I'd use only once.

If I get only Ceriatone's pre-assembled board, chassis and front/rear panels (just for consistency with the chassis), it's gonna be £200 less.

But then if I go to tube-town.net and select all the pieces I might need it's easily 190 euros, if you don't wanna get crap components (the most expensive pieces being the Marshall impedance switch and the voltage switch). Plus Shipping. And I don't even know all the parts, I just looked at the Ceriatone layout and I didn't consider the passive components on the tube sockets etc.

I tried to look on ebay for cliff or neutrik jack sockets and tube-town costs half.

Also I don't wanna get frustrated while searching for matching parts etc. If try to search for 100uF 550v can caps it's a mess already.

I would rather invest the spare time in building the thing quickly and play