Where Ed Plays on the Neck

[rgorke]

I have been playing around with a couple of different VH tunes that can be played at a couple of places on the neck. They each yield slightly different tones/feel. For example, just playing the opening chords of "You're No Good" can be played at the fifth fret or working up the neck using open strings on up. Obviously one is more "efficient" but I could see (hear) Ed playing them either way.

Another example is On Fire. Our own Strat78, is adamant that the main riff is played at the second fret where others insist that it is played at the fifth.

A propensity of tunes center around the fifth fret but that doesn't mean he always played them there.

I don't necessarily have a position (pun intended) on either of these tunes but this fits into recent comments from Rob about how Ed played is as important as to what Ed played, both notes and gear.

[wjamflan]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxuPNq-L-mQ[/youtube]

Strat78 is right about On Fire - just watch the first 10 seconds.....

[mrbond5150]

so do you think playing it different than Ed is a big difference?

[garbeaj]

Where Ed played certain licks, IMHO, had a MAJOR impact on the sound of those licks. The most obvious example is the example that I first came to understand this concept...

The tapping part of "Eruption" was famously and totally incorrectly transcribed by Steve Vai in an issue of Guitar Player magazine in the 80s as having been played on the G string. As most of us now know, Ed plays this on the B-string. The trills leading to the tapping segment are played on the G-string and then he switches to the B-string for the tapping segment. For proof, look at Live: Without A Net and any other video of Ed playing this famous tapping run.

The resonance and feel of the B-string is completely different than the G-string. This is especially apparent on guitars with a standard Fender tremolo. Standard Fender tremolos react to certain strings in certain ways, and the tone difference is unmistakable. I can't stress this enough to those who are seeking to understand Ed's tones, especially those from the first two albums where the standard Fender tremolo is being used.

Really, this goes for all great guitarists that we emulate...the great ones played notes in certain positions for a reason. The feel and tone that comes from certain areas on the neck and certain strings has a HUGE impact on the sound...

[wjamflan]

I'll add to that, and say that many of the transcriptions out there are almost unplayable, and totally un-Ed like. So many examples to draw from, but one that sticks out is the Ice Cream Man solo. The first pattern that is transcribed is usually all on the high E, which is totally wrong for Ed. Why? If you take the time to check out his influences, in this case, exactly what he said - live Cream - you'd see exactly where the inspiration for that lick comes from, and that the last note of each phrase should be on the string below with the pinky.... and that continues as the pattern continues.....

[garbeaj]

Here is how I play the opening pattern and the cadenza from "Ice Cream Man"...I think this is how Eddie played it. I'll repost my mistake filled clip where I play the lead parts from the song using these fingerings...I think at the very least my clip and TAB can give an idea of how playing things in the proper place on the neck can affect the tone...The official transcription of "Ice Cream Man" is mostly correct, except for the cadenza-which is incorrectly transcribed in the wrong position starting on the B-string. The opening lick IS played on one string with the wide stretch pattern that Ed used (and uses) all the time. You can see Ed using this fingering in the first picture in the montage on my clip that I got from the cover of the recent Guitar World collection of Ed interviews...It is not easy on the left hand to make this stretch, but it makes the right hand picking extremely easy and less prone to mistakes since you don't have to skip to to the string below at all-just staying on one string at a time makes things flow. I also think that Eddie came up with the pattern by more or less following the "dots" as so many guitar players will do...I think Eddie plays the last note of the opening pattern with his pinky on the 19th fret of the A string; I just play it on the 14th fret of the D-string because I'm lazy...









[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi6Ox-GZlBU[/youtube]

[Strat78]

It's actually played like this:
--12---16---19---12---16--12---12
---------------------------------19-----

[wjamflan]

It's actually played like this:
--12---16---19---12---16--12---12
---------------------------------19-----

That is exactly what I was saying. Here's proof. Check out @ 1:30 in the video. No ring finger used...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLAvcAFp938[/youtube]

[wjamflan]

To take it even one step further, here's the way I think he's picking it:

-----------------H----------------P
E---12--|---16---19---12---16---12-------------------
B--------|--------------------------------19--------------
-----D--------U----------D----U----------U

I know that might seem unorthodox to some, but Ed used this picking pattern in so many ways. He got it from the cadenza at the end of Sitting On Top Of The World off of Cream's Goodbye album. Check it out:

--------------H----P
B---15---15---18---15----------------------------------
G--------------------------17----------------------------
-----D----U----------------U

In fact, if someone was to ask me if there was one lick to learn that would help unlock Ed's playing for them, I would say this one does the trick....

[garbeaj]

It's actually played like this:
--12---16---19---12---16--12---12
---------------------------------19-----

Of course I disagree completely, but there you go
I know you prefer to play it this way, but do you see my point about the right hand picking being much easier when you play everything on one string at a time?

[garbeaj]

To take it even one step further, here's the way I think he's picking it:

-----------------H----------------P
E---12--|---16---19---12---16---12-------------------
B--------|--------------------------------19--------------
-----D--------U----------D----U----------U

I know that might seem unorthodox to some, but Ed used this picking pattern in so many ways. He got it from the cadenza at the end of Sitting On Top Of The World off of Cream's Goodbye album. Check it out:

--------------H----P
B---15---15---18---15----------------------------------
G--------------------------17----------------------------
-----D----U----------------U

In fact, if someone was to ask me if there was one lick to learn that would help unlock Ed's playing for them, I would say this one does the trick....

I do agree that this lick is a major part of understanding Ed's playing, but of course I disagree with the way you play it and I don't see any relation to the Cream lick. There are licks in the rest of the ICM solo that are similar to the "Sitting On Top Of The World" cadenza, but I think the opening lick of the "Ice Cream Man" solo has almost no relation to the Cream tune...

[garbeaj]

It's actually played like this:
--12---16---19---12---16--12---12
---------------------------------19-----

That is exactly what I was saying. Here's proof. Check out @ 1:30 in the video. No ring finger used...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLAvcAFp938[/youtube]

Ed is not playing the lick the same way here as he plays it on the record. This live version contains alot of mistakes and missed timing. He tries to play the lick the way he played it on the record, but he ends up just trying to improvise his way out of the mistakes and missed timing...

If you want to hear Eddie playing the lick closer to the way he plays it on the record, good luck. He almost never played this lick exactly the same way as he played it on the album...

He gets closer on the very early versions of "I'm The One"...check out the second solo just before the film cuts out in this clip...Still not 100% exactly like he did it on the record, but much closer than the US Festival version IMHO...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI0ekgh4mRM[/youtube]

[wjamflan]

With all due respect garbeaj..... you think Ed played the opening lick to ICM at the US Fest using a 12-16-19 stretch with the middle finger playing the 16th fret parts and it was the only time he did it? I have other video that clearly shows otherwise, if you'd like me to post my it. I've heard all the boots. The proof is in slowing the licks down. And for what it is worth, you can play this any way you want. Bottom line: he played this stretch and the 12-15-19 stretch using the same fingering. Hal Leonard et al. were wrong....

[garbeaj]

With all due respect garbeaj..... you think Ed played the opening lick to ICM at the US Fest using a 12-16-19 stretch with the middle finger playing the 16th fret parts and it was the only time he did it? I have other video that clearly shows otherwise, if you'd like me to post my it. I've heard all the boots. The proof is in slowing the licks down. And for what it is worth, you can play this any way you want. Bottom line: he played this stretch and the 12-15-19 stretch using the same fingering. Hal Leonard et al. were wrong....

I would welcome the opportunity to learn something new...I have never seen a video where he plays the lick the same way he plays it on the record, but if you have a clip I would love to see it:) I think you can hear and see that Eddie is lost in the clip of "Ice Cream Man" from the US Festival...I'm not saying he played it the way you play it once, I'm saying that the U.S. Festival clip sounds nothing like what he did on the record version of "Ice Cream Man".

Have you tried it using my fingerings? Is there anything off in my clip-at least where I am playing the opening lick (there are loads of mistakes otherwise, but I played the opening lick cleanly...)

I'm afraid in the end we will have to agree to disagree, because this is one of the most debated of Eddie's licks and people will play it the way they want to play it. I don't think there is any real way to prove how he played it on the recording. I just don't see the reasoning for jumping over to another string when you can play everything on one string and have a more accurate pick attack. But this lick is just something that people will debate until the end of time. I think the end point of the thread is made: It matters where you play a lick on the neck!

[wjamflan]

I would welcome the opportunity to learn something new...I have never seen a video where he plays the lick the same way he plays it on the record, but if you have a clip I would love to see it:) I think you can hear and see that Eddie is lost in the clip of "Ice Cream Man" from the US Festival...I'm not saying he played it the way you play it once, I'm saying that the U.S. Festival clip sounds nothing like what he did on the record version of "Ice Cream Man".

I would agree that Ed does get lost in the US Fest clip when it comes to executing the pattern cleanly, multiple times in a row, but he does play the pattern exactly like what is on the 1st album. Slow the clip down and you'll hear it.

As far as further video evidence goes, he fingers the pattern exactly the same at Sao Paulo '83 as he did at the US Fest clip - no ring finger. And although he does mess up the pattern the first time through on the high E (almost like he did on VH I), the descending is exactly the same as the album. Again, slow it down and you'll see.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oqZ1z6wcYI[/youtube]

Have you tried it using my fingerings? Is there anything off in my clip-at least where I am playing the opening lick (there are loads of mistakes otherwise, but I played the opening lick cleanly...)

Yes I have. Yours are pretty much the same as every transcription I've seen. I think you did a nice job overall, but after listening to it slowed down, you don't have the exact feel down that Ed used, and I believe it's the picking that's causing it. I know, b/c I did it your way first, a long time ago. That's why I had to figure out what was really going on.

In a nutshell, if you use the fingering I posted above, you need to accent the two notes played at the 16th fret by your midlle finger, b/c they are on the beat, and you can clearly hear that Ed does this as well if you slow it down. That feel definitely cannot be achieved by using a pulloff on beat #2; I tried for years. Only when I started using the SOTOTW picking did it come together for me with the same feel. Maybe someone else will chime in with something different, but that's what I hear.

-----------------H----------------P
E---12--|---16---19---12---16---12-------------------
B--------|--------------------------------19--------------
-----D--------U----------D----U----------U

I'm afraid in the end we will have to agree to disagree, because this is one of the most debated of Eddie's licks and people will play it the way they want to play it. I don't think there is any real way to prove how he played it on the recording. I just don't see the reasoning for jumping over to another string when you can play everything on one string and have a more accurate pick attack. But this lick is just something that people will debate until the end of time. I think the end point of the thread is made: It matters where you play a lick on the neck!

If we end up disagreeing on it, so be it. Most guys here know a hell of alot more about building/customizing amps and electronics than I do, but I concentrated all of my time on learning how to play, so I do feel I have something to offer. Please take it for what it's worth and in the helpful spirit it was meant.

Regards,

Bill