LEADGUY and whoever is interested

[Ted B]

The studio photos claimed to be from the VH1 recording session in late '77 show what appears to be that familiar double black PAF bobbin (the old ES335 he ruined?). As for how it's (re)wound and what magnet is in it at that time, one can only guess from listening.

Maybe Ed originally screwed up the PAF when he removed it and fiddled with it (potting?) and had Seymour repair (rewind) it.

Maybe he had Seymour rewind it like a "PAF on steroids", in which Seymour used his usual 43awg and additional turns.

Maybe Ed experimented with both ceramic and the A2 PAF magnet, effectively creating both a 'Custom' and a 'Custom Custom'.

Apparently, Ed was looking for something other than what could be bought off the shelf at the time. As for exactly what that was, who knows? His tastes were obviously in flux during that period. And as for why Seymour's recollection of a pickup from '78 is a 9.0k 42awg A2 piece (basically a PAF copy), maybe that represents one of multiple pickups Ed auditioned, and possibly not one that was used for any length of time, if even used in the original Frankenstrat guitar.

This is akin to trying to shoot a moving target while blindfolded.

[dirtycooter]

I say-screw all that!!!

Listen to the clips, the vids, the overwhelming evidence of what IS instead of what Ed SAID.

It was a hot overwound super high output p/u-the DSD demos show there is all the gain right there.

Now we have all these hot overwound pickups to paw over. We all know how much we all tried the PAF thing or everything seemingly in its catagory-and what?? Nothin. Unless it was kinda the lower gain VH2 type stuff. Or unless you are cascading and making alot of preamp gain the PAF is not makin much happen for gain really though the voice is right.

Enter the DSD. It IS possible to get a PAF type sound with a alot of drive. What more does one need to know??? So there you have it.
The pole piece thing was a dead give away pretty much. So I think if it was a MM or DiMarzio then he was lookin for that pickup in a more well disguised package. Ed was out to dominate-plain and simple. Why would he not exploit things as much as possible?? It was dog eat dog best guitarslinger in town times.
Did he really have all that knowledge to know enough about winding pickups and stuff AND play like he did??
Probably not. he found something on the market that worked, tried to hide what he was doing, and knew he was making people wonder WTF??? that began his pickup learning process.
Today??? Yeah,.......... NOW he probably has alot more insight on what p/u's can and will sound like and how to maybe taylor it to his needs. But back then??? he was how old?? I just don't see it. In a more aged well worn experienced player yes.
You hear him before 77 struggling and quite honestly sounding alot like most of us in clips from a few years ago. But a a few years ago no one was using a DSD or even thinking of it really.
now we do though-cause the findings are undeniable from what our ears are tellin us.

i wanna fast forward to Fair Warning now-thats the pickup I think that would kick ass for me. But now I am looking at sh5's all kinds of stuff now if its overwound

[chrisom]

I'm not disagreein' with your assessment- I think you're probably right, but go listen to the "Last In Line" album by Dio. It sounds exactly like what a Duncan Custom sounds like. Good, but not VH to my ears. I would more tend to agree with the altered DSD theory. My Dimarzio SD wasn't modified, so it was all great low-end crunch with indiscernable higher notes. I wish I would have kept that pickup so I could mod it today. It wasn't cheap, even back then....

[Ted B]

I say-screw all that!!!

I'm not certain if this was pointed at what I wrote, but if so(?), you might want to go back and reread it.

... go listen to the "Last In Line" album by Dio. It sounds exactly like what a Duncan Custom sounds like. Good, but not VH to my ears. ... it was all great low-end crunch with indiscernable higher notes.

Perhaps there is something in your guitar (or elsewhere in your setup) that differs. Wood type, body mass, bridge mass, etc., all affect the picture. Or, perhaps Ed used what would be the equivalent to a Custom at some point, but perhaps not at the time VH1 was recorded. FWIW, however, the basic Custom specs appear to be very close to the likes of a DSD. Perhaps that isn't by accident.

[dirtycooter]

It wasn't directed at you Ted, I say screw all that to the "Ed said this" stuff. We always hit it big when we all really listen and just use our ears and forget about what Ed said most of the time. But things on other subjects I think he was tellin alot of truth. Sure he probably used pafs at some point-but that first record is what got him everyones attention! And maybe he was afraid it wasn't gonna be long before everyone found out. He was WRONG! Lol! Or maybe it was the bothersome feedback of those kinda pickups?? Who knows
But ears-its all in the ears and we need to trust them more i think

[Ted B]

I likewise feel the photos and the sound provides considerable insight. I also am of the opinion that what Ed said and what Seymour remembers may be just unclear enough to make the chronology of events confusing. It seems convincing at this point that what Ed was using for VH1 was basically a PAF that was configured to sound much like a DSD. And in addition to the fact that a rewound PAF isn't something easily identified by curious eyes (hell, we're still discussing it), a butyrate PAF bobbin won't melt when potted, unlike the plastic aftermarket bobbins.

Was this reworked PAF the first Duncan Custom? I don't know. Could be. But in the end, I think Ed flipped magnets and tried several things in different guitars, perhaps after VH1 was recorded if not before. His sound changed quite a lot in those first records.

[jnewlyn]

Well, I'll offer this. I think we can all agree that Ed has always had concerns about people knowing and/or copying him. So if Duncan was using his name for a product that Ed in fact, didn't use, he probably wouldn't have cared but because he was quick to put a stop to it, that tells me that it may have been a little too close to home, if you know what I mean. There's something quite interesting about whole story. I think it's more probability than possibility in this case. I don't believe for a second, Ed rewound his own pickups. Potting them himself, I might believe. Even magnet changes, sure. Rewinding? I'm have serious doubts.

[leadguy]

Seymours EVH pickup ad was in December 1979.

Ed had already been to Seymour before June 1978, so Seymour would have known prior to December 1979 what Ed got off him and it looks like it was the Duncan Custom.

It's hardly likely that Seymour was trying to sell a randomly chosen pickup model as a EVH pickup if Ed hadn't already got that pickup off him.

EVH: Like the other guitars, I took it to a pro in Santa Barbara and had the pickup rewound. So it is custom-made and gives me an original sound.

from Young Guitar - June 1978 (reprinted and translated for The Inside - Issue 14)

EVH: and a guy named Seymour Duncan, I got pissed at him too. He called me up and said, "Can we use your name for a special pickup?" And I said no. Next time I pick up Guitar Player magazine, there's a special Van Halen model customized Duncan pickup. I called him up and said, "What the hell's goin' on?" So he stopped finally.

from Guitar player December 29 1979

[Marshall SL12301]

Whether or not eddie actually used this custom is anyones guess but i do know that it was a EVH in mind model when seymour made it. I always knew the custom had some VH connection because of its tone(bigger more aggressive PAF) and the fact it was just called custom? custom for whom???

[dirtycooter]

Unless Ed set up his rig in Seymours shop though-what really of an idea though would Seymour know about the tone?? Seymour had reference to what??? Know what I mean?? So theres that part of the mystery. Did Ed set up in his shop right in front of him?? That would be my question. Or did seymour wind what Ed guessedamated would work back at the tone ranch???? This is a big deal really to be honest. Did it happen? Did S.D. know how Ed set things and all the things we know??
Like it was a 12 series, with black backs, variaced, cranked to 11??? Or also so we guessedamate as well lol!
There is this passing event that would make a difference in what Seymour can really glean from Eds request if this is the way it actually happened. Get what I am sayin??

[hammered]

The same discussion is going on at the Seymour Duncan forums , interesting
http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/show ... 435&page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

not really since i am one of the guys postin on that duncan thread

My bad, just being a smartass

[Marshall SL12301]

The same discussion is going on at the Seymour Duncan forums , interesting
http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/show ... 435&page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

not really since i am one of the guys postin on that duncan thread

My bad, just being a smartass

No biggie its all good! The pic got posted over there by duncan rep FRANK FALBO and i brought it over here for LEADGUY and a few others that always wanted to see that old guitar player ad

[jnewlyn]

I don't think it's too difficult. At the time, Ed liked the DSD/MM with ceramics and had Seymour make it for him. I don't think it matters one bit if Ed had his rig set up in Santa Barbara or if SD went down to Ed's to hear it. Probably around that time, Ed was having a new guitar made (bumblebee) and wanted a new pickup that looked new, had all the spec's he liked and was potted, etc. A simple explanation without over thinking it into some area 51 top secret mission. Later would come the same pickup with an AlNiCo II and it would become the Custom Custom. Tons of other variations to follow.

[Marshall SL12301]

I don't think it's too difficult. At the time, Ed liked the DSD/MM with ceramics and had Seymour make it for him. I don't think it matters one bit if Ed had his rig set up in Santa Barbara or if SD went down to Ed's to hear it. Probably around that time, Ed was having a new guitar made (bumblebee) and wanted a new pickup that looked new, had all the spec's he liked and was potted, etc. A simple explanation without over thinking it into some area 51 top secret mission. Later would come the same pickup with an AlNiCo II and it would become the Custom Custom. Tons of other variations to follow.

this sounds feasible to me,the only thing different about the super d/MM1300 is that larger ceramic, which is the main reason it drives a 12000 more than a PAF. I am convinced that the A2 swap was due to the floyd being put on his guitars. prior to that he NEVER used a A2 pup like many thought

[Sparky4444]

I was at the Seymour Duncan shop and got a tour of the whole facility...This lady took me into the Custom Shop which is basically just a little room off of the main open assembly line area where pups are wound to different specs...I asked her about the EVH pickup and she reached into a cupboard and pulled out an old dusty box with this old beat-up pickup...She said there it is, that's the original the was copied...At the time, I didn't really know about the history like I do now, but whatever this pickup was, it appeared to be put together pretty shotty and was cleary well-used...