Notes on EVH and the Variac

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flemingmras
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Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by flemingmras » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:43 am

There seems to be quite a few posts regarding EVH and his use of the variac. I understand a lot of you have a desire to achieve the tone that EVH had on Van Halen 1. But...just thought I'd throw my $0.02 out there and let some of the new people know the dangers of and what they're in for in regards to using a variac on their amps as well as offer a couple suggestions on safer ways to achieve the same end result.

1) Using a variac to drop the mains voltage on your amplifier is not good for it. It's not good for the power tubes, and since the power tubes control how much current the power supply can pull through the power circuit, more than likely what's not good for power tubes probably isn't good for output transformers either.

2) Using a variac to drop the mains voltage not only drops the voltage of the main high voltage supply, but it drops EVERYTHING...bias and heater voltage just as well. Too low of a heater voltage and you run into what is called "cathode stripping", where the heater doesn't have enough voltage to heat the cathode to the temperature required for the cathode to thermally emit electrons. When this happens, the cathode cannot get hot enough to efficiently emit electrons and the high positive voltage on the plate will literally try to "strip" electrons from the "not so hot" cathode. It also makes the bias voltage less negative...too much of that and your power tubes will go into meltdown as they won't have enough negative voltage to keep them from pulling too much current.

3) Using a variac to raise the mains voltage...don't even go there.

Long and short of it...using a variac on your amplifier is not a good idea and definitely not recommended. It will tax your tubes as well as the rest of the amp. EVH himself stated that they were constantly having to replace tubes among other things in the amplifier because of operating it on a variac. If you should decide to do it anyway...you've been warned.

4) EVH was inconsistant in his interviews...some people claim that he's even lied about what he truly did to get that first album tone. In one interview he was quoted as saying "We used to crank the variac all the way up to 140 volts and watch the tubes melt" while others claim that he would drop the mains voltage down to 80-90 volts. I've even read an article that suggested that the variac wasn't even on the mains...but rather used as a power soak between the amp and the speaker cabinet. So who the hell knows what he really did...something tells me he doesn't even know anymore. :lol:

5) There are much better and safer alternatives to lowering your plate voltage (which was the main idea behind what EVH was trying to do in the first place) without dropping your heater and bias voltages. Metro makes the dual voltage secondary power transformer (Metro 1203-80-ML or MS...switchable between 495 and 420VDC) for this reason. There are other tricks as well, such as referencing the negative side of the bridge rectifier above ground by so many volts via a zener diode (or the center tap for amps with a full wave center tap rectifier), or if you really wanna drop the plate voltage, try converting to a full wave center tap rectifier setup with one of George's transformers (should drop it into the neighborhood of around 250 volts or so).

6) The whole reason behind dropping the voltage on the mains was to allow EVH to run with everything cranked at a lower volume. There are other mods such as the post phase inverter master volume that will achieve this, as well as power soaks available for this.

7) EVH used Celestion G12M-25 Greenbacks...these speakers have a very signature sound to them that I feel is a key ingredient to the EVH Van Halen 1 sound.

8) Last but not least...much of EVH's sound is in his technique rather than the gear he plays (EVH himself will tell you that). Ted Nugent played through EVH's gear expecting to sound like EVH and he ended up sounding like Ted Nugent. It's all in HOW you play. 85% technique, 15% gear is the way it's done.

Just my $0.02.
There's just that fine line between stupid and clever - Nigel Tufnel

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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by mr ohmite » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:42 am

thanks for the heds up brah
and taking the time to detail it like that
now i am reading that i should be using a power break or a hot plate
but then i have also read that a palmer speaker emu is even better
confusion will be my epitaph

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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by flemingmras » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:05 pm

The whole debate with power soaks is something only your ears can resolve. Different strokes for different folks.

Never heard of the Palmer attenuator, but it sounds like the Weber Mass attenuators that use an actual speaker for the soak load. Also never thought to try other attenuators. The Power Brake did what I wanted it to do (dropped the volume of the amp) so never had the desire to tone test others.

The other thing with the Power Brake is that George has a really cool mod for them that gives you a seperate level control that's footswitchable so that you can set one for your rhythm volume and the other for your lead volume. Not sure if this can be done to the other soaks out there.

I always find tonal debates funny. It can get quite confusing. People's ears hear very differently. Throw in the fact that people have vastly different ways of describing the same tone, and when you ask them a question like "OK so it sounds like "X"", they say "No it sounds more like "Y""...even though you may have been the one to describe the tone they were hearing correctly, they corrected that by describing it their way yet you're both talking about the same tone...it can get very confusing. Your ears are your best tool...only your ears can decide what you like.
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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by vh junkie » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:36 pm

+1 on what has been said so far.

I use the variac to bring the amp up slowly to 115. Particularly new builds and after mods. They can also be used to break speakers in (low voltage!).

I use a Koch Load Box II as an attenuator. I like it alot. I would also like to try the Power Brake. I use the Koch thru a Digitech TSR-24 Reverb into either a Crown SS power amp or direct into computer recorder. Both work well.

I also have a London Power SF-1 Power Scaler installed in one of my Metro 100w kits. It is a pain to install(requires a new bias circuit). Works by tracking plate, screen and bias voltage down together in a linear fashion. Even if not turning down it allows you to easily make separate plate, screen, and preamp voltage adjustments to find that perfect place. It sounds like it does what it should. But, I want to get a good line/instrument level effects loop in the mix to see if I can really enjoy it fully!

Cheers!
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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by Structo » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:59 pm

I'd love to try a good power scale or VVR circuit some day.

That's a big job for the components in a 100 watt amp.

But, sounds like the perfect solution to get good tone at lower volumes. :D
Tom

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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by Night Owl » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:42 pm

+1 from me on both the subjectivity and the confusion!

I have a Gibson Power Stealth attenuator, which I think is just a Hot Plate with a Gibson logo. I bought it brand new for about half the price of the Hot Plate. At low levels of attentuation, I've been pretty happy with it. A friend brought his JTM 45 PTP heads over for me to retube and bias one night, and also wanted me to hear his brand new Power Brake with it. So we set it all up. His heads sound awesome, but I wasn't too hot on the Power Brake. So we swapped the Power Brake for my Stealth, keeping everything else exactly the same. The Stealth was night and day better than the Power Brake to both of us. Made the Power Brake sound rough and harsh, while the Stealth kept the smooth creamy sound. He sold his Power Brake on eBay the very next day and bought a Hot Plate. But when he hooked up the Hot Plate, it sounded so bad that he sold that, too. I think he's back to just playing loud again :lol:

I'd like to try an Ultimate Attenuator, but for the $600+, I guess I'd better get off my lazy butt and install that $8 LAR/MAR MV sitting on my shelf and give that a try first!

I will say that besides being generally satisfied with the Power Stealth, it also offers another convenience which I don't think the Power Brake has. It has an adjustable line out, which makes it easy to run wet/dry. As long as you can get rid of the ground loop it creates (at least for me)...

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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by bdc » Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:11 pm

I think Eddie tone can be reasonably approximated through most higher gain amps with the right speakers and guitar player....copying a set up that was dangerously improper to begin with is a bad way to go IMO.......

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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by flemingmras » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:04 pm

bdc wrote:I think Eddie tone can be reasonably approximated through most higher gain amps with the right speakers and guitar player....copying a set up that was dangerously improper to begin with is a bad way to go IMO.......
X2!!!!

I'm just as die hard about getting Zakk Wylde's tone as all the EVH heads here are about getting EVH's Van Halen 1 tone but I do draw the line at doing shit that will pose a danger to me or my equipment. If Zakk happened to mention in an interview that he used a Variac to get that sound I'd start looking for other ways around having to do that.

IMHO, using a Variac is not even an option...even if I were trying to get the Van Halen 1 sound.

There are much better and safer alternatives to getting that sound. Like was mentioned before, Eddie's amp was constantly "on the bench" because of the way he used that amp...that tone definitely didn't come for free.
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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by tonepilgrim » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:12 pm

I said it on this forum many times...I know what the science says, I know what the math says, etc etc etc....we have discussed it often over the years. And I respect the experience and tech expertise of all the guys around here.
BUT I've used a variac for many many years, as have many others, because it sounds and feels good. I have never not played my amps wide open. I've never had a problem of any kind. I've never experienced "reduced tube life". I've never burnt a tranny.

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Re: Notes on EVH and the Variac

Post by flemingmras » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:57 pm

tonepilgrim wrote:I said it on this forum many times...I know what the science says, I know what the math says, etc etc etc....we have discussed it often over the years. And I respect the experience and tech expertise of all the guys around here.
BUT I've used a variac for many many years, as have many others, because it sounds and feels good. I have never not played my amps wide open. I've never had a problem of any kind. I've never experienced "reduced tube life". I've never burnt a tranny.
Isn't there always an exception to the rule?

How many people have ran out in the middle of the street before looking both ways and lived to tell about it? Probably the same amount of people who died in the process of.

I know the science behind cigarette smoke. Yet I've been a cigarette smoker for 15 years with no negative effects. Does that mean I'll die of lung cancer? Maybe...maybe not.

I'm sure there are plenty of cranked out meth heads who've been on meth for years with no negative effects. Does that mean I'm gonna go out and try meth?

Hell for that matter, I'm sure there are plenty of skydivers out there that have made several jumps in their lives with no mishaps...does that mean the risk does not exist?

Need I go on?

The fact is...there's always the POTENTIAL for these problems to happen as a result of using a Variac and I felt the risks should be publicly voiced in the event of it happening to someone else so that they're aware of the risk that exists going in.
There's just that fine line between stupid and clever - Nigel Tufnel

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