Intersting Mod

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:54 pm

Ok Lets see if the Mod Gurus can wrap their heads around this one and explain it in more laymans terms.

Known as the ****** Mod

Here is a link to the mod.

http://www.twistyneck.net/******/cm.html

Is this the missing key to the VH I tone?

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:06 pm

It more or less expalins everything. Its a very dangerous mod. It explains why Ed was blowing tubes and OPT so much. You would want to use the heavier duty 6CA7 tube. You would want to drop the B+ on the screens a bit which you would most likely use a variac to do. It reduces the volume to the point were it barely competes with drums. A good way to fix that is to slave the signal (with a load box and line out) to power amps.

The way I understand it is your puting a resistor between the OPT primaries which basically cancel each other out. With no resistor there its full volume since theres no cancelation. With a plain wire going accross theirs no sound because its 100% cancelation. With a certain value resistor you get cancelation to whatever volume you desire. Thats my understanding anyway and its pretty laymens. Its a risky mod though.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:15 pm

Yeah I know. Ive done the search a few times. This was the first time that I picked up on this though. Im not trying to cop Ed's tone at all, but the endless search for others interests and amuses me sometimes. I wonder what a happy medium would be to do a mod like this that was safe for the tranny.
This also explains why he was using the variac , but I recently read that he used it on his output from his amp, amp>variac>effects>poweramp>cabinets. I am wondering if a lot of this stuff was changed out a lot while he was trying to figure out how to get a consistant tone while not killing his amps so that his setup would be road worthy.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:33 pm

Necrovore wrote:Yeah I know. Ive done the search a few times. This was the first time that I picked up on this though. Im not trying to cop Ed's tone at all, but the endless search for others interests and amuses me sometimes. I wonder what a happy medium would be to do a mod like this that was safe for the tranny.
This also explains why he was using the variac , but I recently read that he used it on his output from his amp, amp>variac>effects>poweramp>cabinets. I am wondering if a lot of this stuff was changed out a lot while he was trying to figure out how to get a consistant tone while not killing his amps so that his setup would be road worthy.

How would he run a variac between the amps output and FX? Are you confusing the variac with the load box? Thats sounds like something Ed would say though. If Im not mistaken he one time said he pluged channel 1 into the wall socket

Ed was such a nice guy wasnt he. If I was him I would think its funny as well but I certainly wouldnt encourage people to blow up their amps by claiming the VH1 sound was due to running a variac set at 140V! What a total asshole move.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 11:02 pm

Oh hell why not just plug your amp into a 220 outlet while setting the amp for 120 thatll do it.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:47 pm

Necrovore wrote: I am wondering if a lot of this stuff was changed out a lot while he was trying to figure out how to get a consistant tone while not killing his amps so that his setup would be road worthy.

It sounds as if the Variac, the 20+Ohm value of the load box, the 6CA7s, etc... were all there to releive the strain on the tubes that this mod caused while it gave him his consistent sound. ****** was saying the mod isnt hard on the OPT per se. Its just that its very hard on the tubes and one could blow at any minute taking a tranny with it. All these things people thought he implemented for tones sake. Funny. Every interview Ive read he didnt seem that knowledgable. I dont see why he'd ever even think to do lots of this stuff. Ive read somewhere this mod is doing something similar to what he did with an old Fender amp were hed plug the cab into the ext. spkr. jack to get a great tone. Supposedly he blew many trannys in that amp as well. It makes more sense to me that someone tried this mod for him early in the club days when volume was a problem, he liked the tone very much, with the help of techs he later found ways to make it run louder and more reliable with the use of these things that people always thought were there for tones sake. Of coarse thats all spec from posts Ive read at vintageamps.com but it fits together so well. Try it out if you dare.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:06 pm

Nah no way I dont make enough money to afford a set of new tubes and possibly a tranny every time I want to do mods like this. I will stick with the simple change out of capacitors and resistors messing with cathodes, etc.... I know enough that if I cant get what I want out of amp, then that is the wrong amp and I need to look elsewhere. Right now I'm satisfied with my Marshall with PPIV MV and SOZO cap swapout and being slammed in the front with an MXR 31 band graphic(has the same magic as the 6 band but with a little more room to mess around). If I need more "distortion" I will just pick up a 2204 or run a pedal in front of this baby.

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:36 pm

Cant say I blame you. Im not particularly interested in all that gain anyway. Backing off the volume doesnt work well at all with that much gain or that much compression even with a SL. I tend to dial my Marshalls cleaner in a 6-7 range. I love the brown sound but its a bit too much for me personally. Like I said I like a less overdriven sound with a cranked fuzz. Back off the volume with a fuzz on max and I love how tight and focused it is without the fuzz spitti-ness.

Do you find the 31 band (or the 6 for that matter) adds alot of hiss or noise? I used to have a Boss GE7 and while it was quiet I was using it between the loaded amps Line Out (from a Hot Plate) and a power amp. Worked well to make the sound huge with a V shape which doesnt work well at any other stage other then after the amps output IMO but I never did put it in front. The thing that always attracted me about the 10 or more band EQs in front of the amp is you can totally get that 'wah set in one position as filter' sound by boosting a small range in the mids somewhere and cutting all other frequencies. The thing that makes me think its cool is that you can adjust the amount of boost and cut so you can get that wah filter sound only less intense which I think makes it more usable. I guess you could even make it more intense if you wanted if the boost/cut range was high/low enough if you wanted a really crazy sound.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:48 pm

Yeah the EQ is noisy as hell. But its not to the point where it interferes with my overall sound. Only when Im not playing can you hear it. It is easily taken care of with a hush unit. I use a simple Hush circuit off a Rocktron compressor I have. The Hush is a separate section of the rack unit so Im not using the compression. I just dial it in enough so that the output hiss is barely gone. I do not have that in the signal path at this time though because I can deal with the hiss.

I have the 31 band set in a similar pattern as the 6 band I have in that the 800k band is pushed all the way up and a frown shape off that band. The 31 band of course is a bit wider with the last three bands on either end remaining flat. I basically take the bands that are on the 6 band and put them in the same spots on teh 31 band, then tailor the surrounding bands til it sounds good. I have the overall output set at halfway between full out(+12db) and flat. Roughly +5-8db depending on the room I am in. It smacks the amp nicely.

The guitar I use is running Duncan Live Wire Metal actives in both neck and bridge position. I do not need a fuzz or OD pedal, but with my passive guitars I need it to create the level of "distortion" that I need but adding those sucks the life out of the tone. So Im investing in a few more sets of the Live Wires.

tonejones · Post by **tonejones** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:08 am

Necrovore,
Is that a sound reinforcement graphic???? The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering what types of impiedance issues that could cause.

Aren't sound reinforcement units are low impiedance and gtr efx high impiedance???????

Anyone????

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:38 am

I actually have a Samson dual 31 band rackmount. Ive tried it but its terribly noisey but it is line level so I didnt expect it to work well.

Necrovore · Post by **Necrovore** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:11 pm

Tonejones. It has inputs for both. You can use it with XLR plugs and also has 1/4 high impedance input/outputs. I get no more noise than what I get using an MXR pedal EQ. Nor DO I get any other funny noises out of it. I've had it forever and comes and goes in my rig setup depending on what sort of sonic phase I might be going through. You can pretty much use any rack type effect on a guitar rig as long as there are high impedance inputs on said effect. I cant say that it will sound great but it can be used. Matter of fact I have an ALesis Quadraverb that I am fighting with now in my rig to get ANY sound out of it. I think I am not setting it up right or something.