Jimi and JBL D-120F Speakers

[Michael Patrick]

So.... Three of the Bassman heads could be powering the three stacks of Guild cabs, with the fourth being a spare. The Dual Showman head could be powering the cab on Jimi's side of the stage, and the Twin could be Billy's monitor for Jimi's guitar.

[frenchie]

and what would be the white cable going from the back of the marshall stack to the jbl cab for ? certainly not a cable going to the mix table cuz it's going from the back and not from front mics , even more cuz at these rehearsals mics weren't even installed ..... the cable going from the bass stack follow the traynor monitor 's cable and end up real far from the jbl cab...would be less messy to make it run on the back of the stage if so ...

[parkhead]

So.... Three of the Bassman heads could be powering the three stacks of Guild cabs, with the fourth being a spare. The Dual Showman head could be powering the cab on Jimi's side of the stage, and the Twin could be Billy's monitor for Jimi's guitar.

If the guild cabs are 4 ohms each all of the fender amps would be needed to drive them.
including the twin and showman !

one amp per cab

The twin, showman and bassman 100 are almost identical circuits
the bassman 100 is a twin without reverb

I don't think following the wires is too instructive since there should be 6 speaker wires running from the fender amp stack
to the Guild cabs and we cannot see them ...

The white wire is thicker and may be AC
Since there has to be some power for the Monitor wedges and we would assume a monitor mix station stage left
except .... monitor mix stations were not yet common ... typically you'ed see a Tube PA head stack sidestage
for PA and monitors


600 watts for billy
and 300 watts for Jimi Makes sense to me
Given the celestions were 99db
and the jbls 100db +
efficiency

p

[frenchie]

The white wire is thicker and may be AC

since it comes from the marshall head (you see clearly it comes from the stack) with bulgin plug ...never saw a white bulgin cable (wan't to see one by the way cuz i may be wrong) ..... but i've seen plenty of white jack cables all around this stage ...one is plugged to jimi's wedge ...and thicker ..well maybe an effect of the light depending on the angle of sight ...
your argument about impedances is much more relevant to me , really think this is the proper angle to take the problem ....

[parkhead]

Eric Barrett
"As we got going along, it got to be four cabinets and four tops. So, if Jimi had four, then Noel had to have four.
Then It got to the point where Jimi had six with three 100 watt tops on the top of those three (stacks?) and another one on the bottom pushing a slave on the other side for Noel to hear. So that resulted in Noel having six of these big sunn amps with three 100 or 200 watt tops - I can't remember which - with another one at the side pushing one on Jimi's side. As soon as it got to that, Mitch said "I can't hear my drums" So we started off getting him all this stuff, and we eventually ended up with four of those big Altec a-7 cabinets that people use for PA systems stuck up right behins his head. He's always say thats not enough give me more !"
From an early Guitar player interview


That's the setup you see in the albert hall Footage.


OH and I hate to tell you guys the "MIC" on the sunn cabinets at 1m47 is the shadow of Jimi's vocal mic.

it's more clearly a shadow in Machine gun


P

[frenchie]

OH and I hate to tell you guys the "MIC" on the sunn cabinets at 1m47 is the shadow of Jimi's vocal mic.

it's more clearly a shadow in Machine gun


P

here's you're wrong .....a shadow don't show up like shiney metal....it shows up like a black contour , whatever the surface .... i won't go over this fact again , cuz i explained it very well previously with all the pause times needed on the video ....it's a mic on the jbl cab , and not the vocals's mic shadow ....the shiney metal ISN'T consistent with the alu dustcap cuz it's clearly excentered ......and your vocal mic shadow appears far much upper in the pause time i gave .....
don't be fooled by the rehearsal pic cuz as i said even the marshall cabs's mics weren't installed during the rehearsals ...on the videos you clearly see the far right marshall cab is mic'ed but it's not mic'ed on the pic ...

now if you told me a mic on billy's stack wen't to the console mix table or pa on the far left and then went into the jbl then i could have taken this point into consideration ...cuz for me it's the last possibility/ argument in favor of the sunn jbl cab being a bass monitor.

sometimes i wonder why everybody seems to absolutely wan't this fuckin' cab to be a bass monitor before real meticulous expertise , to the point of stretching all possible lenghts to assess it ...is there a load of unsold G12H to sell anywhere using the mythical glowing of the fillmore east show ? ....hey men ... g12H were a part of the equation , no doubt , if jbls were also used for guitar it wouldn't cut any slack of any speaker seller , just would take some fanatics to buy jbl copies in ADDITION to their G12H ..no kidding

[parkhead]

I don't see a mic in front of that cab you're referring to,
My guess is it's a stage monitor.

ok here 's another part of the gig ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qB_JIOL ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

make a pose at 5M19 you'll see what i'm reffering to ....you see the tip of the cab's mic on the left speaker....and it's shiny as polished metal ...meaning if it was the shadow of the voice mic on the grill cloth of the sunn cab it surely wouldn't be shiny but dark ....am i right ?

Despite the metalic reflection at 5m19 the "mic" on the JBL wash cab is in fact the shadow of Jimi's vocal mic.

Before people start "swearing" about the "facts" review the footage again and look for the BASE of the MIC stand for this "cab Mic" clearly it has no base since it is the shadow of Jimi's Vocal mic.

As Far as the metalic reflection goes we are talking about JBL speakers with their often reflective dust caps.

I'm willing to try out JBLs with MY Vintage Marshalls I've owned several sets in the past and found them NOT to be a sound I'm after... Cerwin Vegas sound Much better for guitar and look like JBLs to the untrained observer

Until New or Better photographic evidence appears I've concluded the mystery MIC is a trick of the Light and the JBL cab is for monitoring purposes.

Have a good one

P

[frenchie]

I don't see a mic in front of that cab you're referring to,
My guess is it's a stage monitor.

ok here 's another part of the gig ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qB_JIOL ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

make a pose at 5M19 you'll see what i'm reffering to ....you see the tip of the cab's mic on the left speaker....and it's shiny as polished metal ...meaning if it was the shadow of the voice mic on the grill cloth of the sunn cab it surely wouldn't be shiny but dark ....am i right ?

Despite the metalic reflection at 5m19 the "mic" on the JBL wash cab is in fact the shadow of Jimi's vocal mic.

Before people start "swearing" about the "facts" review the footage again and look for the BASE of the MIC stand for this "cab Mic" clearly it has no base since it is the shadow of Jimi's Vocal mic.

i actually saw the base of the mic ....and i really liked the "despite the metallic reflexion" ....i didn't knew a grill cloth could make a spheric metallic reflexion ... that's a real weird physic phenomenon you're talking about man , one of those which could take place in an x-files episode for sure .....

[frenchie]

I don't see a mic in front of that cab you're referring to,
My guess is it's a stage monitor.

ok here 's another part of the gig ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qB_JIOL ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

make a pose at 5M19 you'll see what i'm reffering to ....you see the tip of the cab's mic on the left speaker....and it's shiny as polished metal ...meaning if it was the shadow of the voice mic on the grill cloth of the sunn cab it surely wouldn't be shiny but dark ....am i right ?

Despite the metalic reflection at 5m19 the "mic" on the JBL wash cab is in fact the shadow of Jimi's vocal mic.

Before people start "swearing" about the "facts" review the footage again and look for the BASE of the MIC stand for this "cab Mic" clearly it has no base since it is the shadow of Jimi's Vocal mic.

i actually saw the base of the mic ....and i really liked the "despite the metallic reflexion" ....i didn't knew a grill cloth could make a spheric metallic reflexion ... that's a real weird physic phenomenon you're talking about man , one of those which could take place in an x-files episode for sure .....

[RCCola]

The trouble with this idea is that Dummy cabs were a totally non existent concept in 1969-70...

Spare heads, yes dummy cabs no ... not with one or two roadies and a station wagon or 5 ton truck to carry all the gear...

Dummy cabs are a product of the "Kiss Grand stage" show that happened in the late 70's ...

Wrong. The Who were using dummy cabs way before '69.

Regarding JBL's those ali dust caps sound terrible when you hit them with Fuzz and you don't hear that on these

recordings...

Not mine.

most JBL users are clean players country ect... with current distortion playing almost no one uses JBL's

If you want to try JBL's go ahead ...then you will understand why distortion players dislike them

So...you were elected spokesperson for all players who use distortion?

Hendrix, Allman Brothers, Mike Bloomfield, Fleetwood Mac, Dick Dale, SRV, and on and on. Not country players. Played loud, distorted...

[parkhead]

Bring on clips of your great sounding JBL recordings and I will listen with open ears

peace

p

[frenchie]

i'd say i was a bit puzzled the other night to see a guy like our dear friend parkhead beeing smart enough to put in front a brilliant and totally logic point like "the impedances of billy's bass cabs " and then all of a sudden falling into an obscure way of thinking by trying to avoid the existence of the mic in front of the sunn cab using totally new and unheard laws of optical physics which are supposed to make a shadow reflect light like a mirror .... but it's " KINDA" logic in fact ...given ALL billy's heads are supposed to be busy feeding ALL billys cabs with signal cuz of the wonderfull impedance point put in front by parkhead , then i repeat myself the last possibility for the sunn cab beeing a bass monitor would be that a mic in front of billy's stack was feeding a mix table and then reinjected in the sunn cab .......BUT and that's why the mic i found in front of the sunn cab becomes very disturbing for the partisans of the sunn bass monitor theory ..imagine two seconds the total sound engeneering non-sense of mic'ing the bass stack injecting it into a mix table then reinjecting it into the sunn cab and last mic'ing the sunn cab to re-reinject the signal again into the mix table......
yeah it's almost like the mic in front of the sunn cab invalidates the sunn bass monitor theory , hence the illogic agressivity on this single point .....

funny thing would be that the last chance for parkhead to prove the sunn bass monitor theory would be that one of billy's bass cabs was a dummy one and so one of his heads was feeding the sunn cabs ...

doesn't it sound ....logic guys ?

[basile865]

guys cool out!

At the end of the day its about what YOU personally like. I think you have to adopt hendrix's mentality to be fearless with experimentation. So get your hands on as many different rigs as you can, combine stuff, butcher it, whatever! Just have fun and experiment with what sounds good, opens your mind, and is fun.

I strongly believe hendrix's live sounds had a lot to do with the room/recording. I used to think one rig is going to sound the same way with maybe a little more or less reverb based on the room, But when recently reviewing some live vids of my band, its impressive how one night's tone can sound really good and one not so much. The room has a lot to do with it.

But all I'm trying to say is lets not tear eachother apart, everybody is entitled to believe what they want, but at the end its all about fun, experimentation and tone. So whatever helps you acheive the sound you're shooting for is cool! Its not worth losing our cool over towards one another, especially when we're trying for the same thing.

[frenchie]

oh i'm cool basile don't worry ....but the gigantic wall of unproved and biased "sonic-orthodoxy" surely isn't .... when i look back and see how long it took for a simple idea like adding a big clean headroom speaker into the mix to be not ridiculous anymore .... .... not all arguments against it have really been honest to say the least .... and it's not even the end yet i guess ; perhaps there's a hidden P.A , an hidden irish troll playing electric ukulele through the sunn cab , imagination is the only limit ...so let the fun continue ...

[rjgtr]

D-120 speakers are unlike the JBL guitar speakers that came after. When you push them hard they lose the harshness and have a defined but full sound. If you want to hear JBLs and Marshalls, listen to Live at Fillmore East by the Allman Brothers. That's a pure Marshall with no effects to a speaker cab. One secret to the Allman Brothers' use of JBLs, which was also true for 70s EC, Skynyrd and whole host of others, was that the Marshall cabinets had 3/4 backs on them, so they were open backed. This difuses the sound a little.

Maybe Hendrix tried this too. We know he recorded with a Twin, so it isn't much of a stretch...