Trouble With Coilies - help needed

[Brandon]

So I got all of the coilies that Jimi used, two 30 footers (fender koilkords) and two 15 footers (radioshack)... dramatic alteration in tone.

However I've ran into a snag...

I've cut the highs very nicely with the coilies, but now I have this mid range tone when the volume is on 10 that is not pleasant to me. It sounds almost like a wah has been left on 3/4 open.

But when I roll the volume down to 9, the problem goes away!

What's going on here? I want to have as close to jimi's setup without compromise, so what should I do?

Is there something different electronically in my guitar than jimi's? Is there something wrong with the coilies? Is this something JImi dealt with?

PS a little about my setup

Strat Alder body with Fralin "woodstock" pups
Through: RMC Wah Dunlop Fuzz Face, Fulltone Deja Vibe
Marshall Class 5 Amp (still waiting on my metro!)

[CrazyNinja8730]

Troubleshooting time:

If you can, test the setup minus the pedals. This is to say, take jacks that are wired together and plug in all of your cables so that you have the 90 some feet of coil.

Guitar [ Amp ]
I [++++++]
00000000000[Jacks]000000[Jacks]000000[Jacks]00000000000[++++++]

This will show you if the cables alone are the problem.
Let me know what you find. If the cables alone are the problem, try something a little more high end than the Radioquack cables if you have some more $$$.

[Brandon]

I tested out the cables alone, and basically that sound is always there, it just gets more intense to more coily cord is added.

With one coily cord its not a problem at all with a strat, with two it get more noticeable, and so on.

And like I said before, when the volume is rolled down, the problem vanishes.

[Brandon]

I tested out the cords between my SG and my strat, and it's definitely something going on with my strat exclusively. My SG is fine with the cords.

I feel like it's got to be something electrical in the strat, perhaps it's outputting too much power or something, or maybe something my guitar is lacking that the old ones had perhaps, or maybe the pups.

Like, what are these little things attached to the middle pot? My strat does not have that, but the old ones always seem to.





Could that have an effect on this?

Remember that when I turn the volume down slightly, the problem goes away. Weirdest thing.

[spaceace76]

this sorta sounds like the cables are doing their job, using their capacitance to move the resonant frequency lower into the mids, and cutting off highs. it's a bit strange that turning the volume down would help that though, unless the particular frequency that's bothering you is also affected by the treble bleed of your pots.

since you're trying to create a hendrix-sounding rig, the shift in resonance is exactly what you want. a guitar is a mid-based instrument. it's still producing frequency's across the board but it's strongest in the mids. if you want to stand out in a loud band setting, especially if it's the 60's and you're Hendrix and all you use to get your sound is a big pile of marshalls (meaning no PA or well-trained sound guy EQing or moving levels around), cranking the amp and emphasizing mids is the way to go.

the marshall class 5 may also be a factor, jimi obviously used plexi's and although I don't know much about the class 5 circuit, it's likely very different from an original plexi in terms of how the signal is handled and the overall tone. but then again, i've never heard one in person.

the SG has higher output and may not be susceptible to signal loss in the same way a strat with low output pickups would be. same effect but different sound. the little thing on the middle pot is your tone control capacitor. your SG should have at least one too.

[basile865]

I agree with spaceace76 man. Plus in all sincerity, a class 5 vs. a full plexi 100 watt stack is a totally different tone. Even if you took just a halfstack and set it to the same volume levels as the class 5 - the 12 inch speaker is going to have much better low end/low mids then a 10 inch. You might find the setup to sound much better once you run it into a halfstack.

I wonder if it still has this problem when you use straight cables. If not, use them for now and just roll the tone knob back a couple notches to cut a little high end.

[SteadyEddie]

Years ago I spoke with the pickup designer Bill Lawrence, he said that if you take a small value capacitor, I think a .005, and use that in your strat, roll it down, that it actually gives a midrange boost. I was wondering how a passive device could boost signal, but someone else had simulated it in a SPICE model, and sure enough, it creates a resonant peak that actually boosts the mids of the guitar. I think he said this is similar to the capacitance of the coiled cords.

[Purplexi]

I had nothing but trouble from my 30ft Fender Koils, the 15 being okay but still not rugged enough for repeated stage use. There are other, upper end coil cables available:Core One Bullet and Vox. I'm saving my pennies for the Lava coil however and I've given up on the idea of running them from pedals to amp. It's just not essential for getting Jimi's tone as getting a decent Marshall 100 head(a used JCM 800 will suffice) and proper speakers, like Celestion Greenback C's or Scumback H55's.