Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

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Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:33 am

it has been pointed out that angus's tone on this record deviates quite a bit from other records (although you may find live recordings with a somewhat similar sound from the 70s, cf. let there be rock the movie from paris 1979). Possible amps used are:
1959s
2203s
the 1976 2 holers with 3 gainstages (basically a 1959 with a master volume).

Also, I encourage trying treble and middle boosters for coping this sound. some rumours have it that ang had a booster connected to his strap to run the long cables live (before going wireless). if you look at whole lotta rosie from the paris 1979 move you'll hear that ang's sound goes away gradually - sounds like a dying battery or something :scratch: .
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by HTH » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:51 am

has you played round with removing the choke from the amp? - I've heard that some AC/DC amps that surfaced were found to have a wirewound resistor rather than a choke (giving a raunchier tone I find).

I think that Angus' tone in this period was 2203s all the way - its my favourite tone of his.

Here's a clip from a small UK show in '78 and Angus' tone is great as usual - looks like 2-inputers for both him and Mal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t0tG5nl0aQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:48 pm

yes, removing choke and adding a big resistor is not recommended for ac/dc tone imho.
the 2 holers shown onstage could be either the 1976 3 stager or the 2203 (4 stages).

ang himself said that all the early records were recorded with a real bright superlead. reinholdt came to the same conclusion after listening to the records, esp. ang's the pick attack.

have anyone gotten a good LTBR tone with a 2203? I haven't myself.

also, problem child is from the dirty deeds sessions (1976) but crabsody in blue belongs to the LTBR sessions. ang has a bright sound on all tracks. could be philip chicklet caps instead of mustards and the c2668 instead of the c1998
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by leadguy » Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:57 pm

There were Australian/New Zealand amps that Angus and Mal were using live sometimes in the early days and they could have been carted into the studio for some things as well as the Marshalls, for the early recorded in Australia albums.

The Australian/New Zealand amps had Plessey/Rola speakers made in Australia and these are great speakers and the amps were powerful with oversized transformers and high voltage (no pun intended).
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Sat Oct 23, 2010 1:51 pm

leadguy wrote:There were Australian/New Zealand amps that Angus and Mal were using live sometimes in the early days and they could have been carted into the studio for some things as well as the Marshalls, for the early recorded in Australia albums.

The Australian/New Zealand amps had Plessey/Rola speakers made in Australia and these are great speakers and the amps were powerful with oversized transformers and high voltage (no pun intended).
Plessey/Rola went out of business but recently started up again http://www.woodworkforums.com/f98/loran ... wow-59360/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
yes, the amps were used in the early days (the aussie lps). but mal and ang seems to have prefered plexis and started using them at least by 1976
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by SoloDallas » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:20 pm

I am going to try and replicate it. I'll try with a 1979 2203, a 1977 2204 and a 1976 Super Lead.
Cabinets: I'll use one 1960B with 1973 G12H30s and one 1960B with 1977 G12Ms.
Until now, I haven't succeeded.
It needs to be noted that most if not all of the live shows in 1977, 1978 and probably onward, have been played with at least one 2203 each (Mal & Ang). The sound - for example - from the October 1977 live performances is clearly - both visually and audio - a Master Volume (likely 2203).
Now, it IS possible that in the studio they did it with something else - no MV - but it would be unlikely that AC/DC were playing those very songs (the LTBR songs) right after the album with a different amp than the one used in studio. I think they would have tried to replicate the sound from the album. Usually, this is what they did/do.
Food for thought.
Also, I agree with what Roe said about boosters: right before the Schaffer-Vega "Diversity System" (NO info on the web: it was a wireless unit, likely very expensive, that featured both a compressor AND a booster - volume - on it; Angus got one in 1977) or with it, he may have used some booster in the studio.
What I will try and do is to solely "volume boost" my 2203 with a Klon with gain on 0. Worth trying for a simulation.
The Schaffer-Vega can't be found. Nowhere there's one for sale. Been looking for some time. Disappeared.

Edit: adding a video dated 2nd Oct. 1977: I don't see no cable here; no cable = Schaffer Vega.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKdu7Y3P7Hs[/youtube]
Last edited by SoloDallas on Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:59 pm

ang seems to have droped the booster when he went wireless. I'm getting close with the classical treble booster circuit but a bigger cap than the traditional 5nf, at least 10nf, possibly even 20nf
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by somethin'else » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:02 am

While we're on it... the treble boost thing is really interesting, something I hadn't heard of before. I am liking that idea!

Now, for the brethren of the AC/DC...

You may have this already, but if you don't, Now You Will!

Great Hi Quality in Stereo, so you can pan hard to just hear Angus or Malcolm.
The first set ('76) is a bit botched with some in/out mess (not my problem), but well worth the listen, with overall Excellent up close, from the board sounds, man, just great!
The '76 show also has some fun, trippy echo on Bon too, heh heh, trips indeed...
Soul Stripper!!!

I personally love the '76 tones, CLEAN with just enough bite, refined really. I really want to think Malcolm's playing a JTM45/100, but I know I'm dreaming.
Could '76 be four holers?
Malcolm's '79 rhythm tones are pretty hellacious though!
You can hear the amp changes (whatever they are) on both versions of High Voltage.

Download Here and Enjoy!

Here are the notes:

Two highly charged sessions...

tracks 01-04 -27 july 1976 @ Marquee, London

01-intro-live wire (sorry, the upload wouldn't process, but the song cuts out within 30 seconds and goes to track 2)
02-it's a long way to the top
03-soul stripper
04-high voltage

tracks 05-15 -02 november 1979 @ Hammersmith Odeon, London

05-live wire
06-shot down in flames
07-hell ain't a bad place to be
08-sin city
09-walk all over you
10-the jack
11-highway to hell
12-the girls got rhythm
13-high voltage
14-if you want blood-you've got it
15-let there be rock

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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by SoloDallas » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:35 am

Dave,
this was a "Jewel" I had never listened to before. THANKS!
I don't think 2203s are being played here, but my year is not so trained yet on 2203/2204 at full blast (they will soon be, going to do a session in a huge place, out there in the country, where I'll be able to full blast all of my 2203, 2204, 1959 and 1987 together).

Cheers!

Fil

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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:51 am

thanks for the tracks (the hammersmith tracks have been issued on several bootlegs and are well know but the marque tracks are more interesting). although the live sound may be relevant, please try to focus on the studio tone (LTBR)
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by SoloDallas » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:53 am

Roe: Aye Sir.

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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:10 am

when experimenting with a 1959 I prefer the .68uf cap on v2 for this record, esp. for the riff on hell aint a bad place to be. also, I've experimented with nfb and I'm getting close to some of the tones with little feedback (100k into 4ohms). this gives a really dirty plexi tone. some of the 1959s were set up this way. however, its easy to get a too smooth and too dark tone. perhaps 100k/4ohms is too extreme?
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by SoloDallas » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:57 am

Roe wrote:when experimenting with a 1959 I prefer the .68uf cap on v2 for this record, esp. for the riff on hell aint a bad place to be. also, I've experimented with nfb and I'm getting close to some of the tones with little feedback (100k into 4ohms). this gives a really dirty plexi tone. some of the 1959s were set up this way. however, its easy to get a too smooth and too dark tone. perhaps 100k/4ohms is too extreme?
While technically speaking I still have no idea of what you are talking about (lol),
I did as promised and boosted the 1976 (3 stager) JMP 1959 I have. Cabinet is a 1973 1960B with G12H30s. I don't think they used the G12H30s in LTBR though, I think they used G12Ms. My 1969 1960A cabinet with G12Ms is being restored though, so all I could try on was the first one mentioned.

Here's my two attempts with boosted 1959.
The boost unit is a custom made one, clean boost with a tone control.
Now my theory/belief/research:
Angus stated in interviews that he has been using the "Schaffer Vega DIversity" (wireless system of the time) extensively since 1977, live AND in the studio. My strong belief is that he started using the Vega in the studio for LTBR.
I am unaware of any treble booster he may have used prior to that.
Now, it is documented that the Schaffer Vega DIversity had a volume boost (and built in compressor) on both the transmitter and receiver ends. Angus himself says that he used both of those "....giving guitar hell".
Now, a Schaffer Vega can't be found anywhere. However, the CETEC Vega can. I presume Vega was acquired by CETEC shortly thereafter, continuing to produce this unit in a much similar package. I have bought several units of the CETEC Vega, aesthetically almost identical to the Schaffer. It is my belief - and hope - that internally these are very similar.
The objective will be to test these both wireless-wise and non.wireless.
I believe that using them wireless, will add something to the tone as heard on record.

Here's the two LTBR tracks I have been messing with:

Go Down

http://www.solodallas.net/wp-content/up ... 3/down.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bad Boy Boogie:
http://www.solodallas.net/wp-content/up ... oogie2.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both are exaggerated in terms of boost used.

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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by Roe » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:26 am

thanks for the clips - they are good but certainly not spot on. I actually think that I came closer with a germanium treble booster with a bigger cap (basically a mid booster)
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Re: Angus' tone on Let there be rock (1977)

Post by SoloDallas » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:18 am

Roe wrote:thanks for the clips - they are good but certainly not spot on. I actually think that I came closer with a germanium treble booster with a bigger cap (basically a mid booster)
I needed your ears as well in fact. Thanks for listening ;)

Roe: where/how to find such boost (while waiting for the real boost used by Angus, that is, the Schaffer Vega)?

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