King's X

[Mynameisfritz]

'Little do we really know, the river ego deep and wide...' - great band, great lyrics and Doug Pinnick has one of the most expressive, powerful voices I ever heard. (I always wondered how Slash's 5 'o clock would have turned out with him on vocs.)
King's X was our favourite power trio - for my main band back in the nineties. Almost nobody knows them around here - they played gigs in front of 100 - 200 people...

[tfrost33]

Yeah, I have always been into this band... You have uncanny timing, I was just at wally world getting an ironing board.... yeah yeah don't ask anyway, to my great surprise the song "Over My Head" was blasting through the Wal-Mart stereo system. I couldn't believe it. And it was turned up loud too. UNREAL!

Great tune, and amazing band!

[Krinkle]

I've had the parts to build the L5 preamp for about 2 years now, even the obsolete CA3094's, and I still haven't gotten around to it. The schematic and even the pcb layout are on the internet.

I read that his tone was a combination of the Elite, with it's mid boost, the L5 preamp with the bass turned down and then post eq'ed up, and a Crown Microamp (I think). He said that one of the keys was the mid frequency control on the L5 (from a Guitar Player interview).

I searched high and low for a schematic of the Crown power amp (supposedly a HI FI amp). I will probably do it at some point (have a Metroamp kit coming this week so it won't be any time soon). I was going to build the preamp in a 1U rack chassis and add a mid boost circuit to the front end (experiment with pedals first), and tinker with the bass circuit to see if I could roll some of it off or alter the center frequency without losing the character of the tone. If I could get close I would throw it all in the 1U rack chassis and send it into the return on my amp. Just my thoughts, we'll see.

I certainly don't expect to automatically get Ty's tone but even if I was close it would be heaven. Gretchen is near the top of my desert island discs.

I saw them here in Toronto about 3-4 years ago and I was able to get right up to the stage in front of Ty. He was using the Pod into a MB 90/90. Man I was jonesing for the L5 tone but he has such a signature touch that it still sounded pretty good.

One of my favorite bands, nice to see others like them too. By the way, I was standing next to a guy from Cincinatti who had been travelling around and had been to every show of the tour at that point.

Oh, more thing, Doug was wearing a pair of Stars and Stripes boxers with his jeans halfway down his ass. About half way through the show his pants started to fall down and he had to play for about 2 minutes with his pants to his knees. Everybody was killing themselves laughing, even Doug.

Darrin

[54strat]

Don't remember much about Dug's early bass rig except in the early videos you can see a couple of Fender heads, Dual Showmans I think, the 80's models with the red knobs and built in distortion. I THINK he used to use those with a couple of SVT's. Now he uses the Traynor head for the nasty highs and a couple of Ampeg Pro 4's for clean bottom and the bulk of his volume. You can get more details about his rig at twelvestringbass.com He has a lot famous bass player fans.
I have to go to Dallas to see them as they haven't played Lubbock in some time. The last time they were here there was a late season ice storm, it was miserably cold and the heat in the venue wasn't working. You could see their breath when they sang, and when Dug didn't have to fret a note on the bass he would stick that hand up in his arm pit. They played their asses off anyway for almost two hours for the fifty or so people who stuck it out. At least they had the stage lights. I remember shivering so hard it hurt. And yes, I will admit to knowing too much about them. Super nice guys too that I've had the pleasure of hanging out with a few times due to my radio gig.

[jurgen]

The last great power trio

[fivecoyote]

Don't know if anyone reading this hasn't gone to see the X yet, but if not you owe it to yourself to go. Always a great show, full of fans who sing every word, and there won't be a bad seat in the house. You also will be a fan and buy all the discs after the show. I've seen this happen to friends of mine. Just a great, great band. I'm glad they're still doing it. They could've given up a long time ago.

[tonepilgrim]

Krinkle - you're on the right track for Ty tone. My brother went through a phase where he really needed to replicate that early Gretchen tone. He acquired a couple Elites, and an L5. You dial it in right, and that's all you need. The tone was spot on. The Elite and the on board pre was a key. Drop down to D and play an old Ty riff and you really couldn't tell the difference. The interesting thing was it was kind of limiting in a way...the tone was so uniquely King's X, that playing anything else with it sounded kind of silly.

[wdelaney72]

Seriously, is there a more underrated band out there than King's X?

[54strat]

As you know, I am a long time, big King's X fan but for the first time EVER I am disappointed in a new King's X album. I even like the albums some of the fans who post on their forums dislike. Still anything they do solo or group wise is worth buying. To me it sounds like the stuff they do on their solo albums, which is not BAD, it just doen't sound like a band record. And I know Ty has always said the song is the most important thing and he doesn't do solos just to do solos, BUT...there's not really any knock you on your ass Ty Tabor solos....until you get to the second "bonus" track (what's up with that nonsense nowadays?) "No Lie". I know Ty is a big Brian May fan but he does some multi-tracked solo stuff on this song that is so dead-on Brian May it will make you laugh like being on stage with someone who plays something unexpectedly cool. I've let it play in my car for couple of weeks now to give it a chance to grow and it still sounds like they were helping each other get songs tracked that were left off of previous solo records.

[Krinkle]

Me again.

I go through stages where I listen to Kings X for days straight, album after album in a row. I was looking on Youtube and after seeing these two clips I couldn't wait to build the L5 preamp as I had previously planned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE--1_Tj0dA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODRNuJ12 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I searched around locally here in Toronto and I bought an L5, wondering how close I would get to Ty's tone. I knew about his signal chain for the first 4 albums so I thought that if I could get anywhere close I would be happy. I dug out my May 1996 Guitar Player with the interview with Ty and started tweaking the settings, using my 2007 Strat. Not bad.

Based on the clips above I took a look on eBay and found an Alesis Midiverb II for well under a hundred bucks. Wow! I used setting 62 and I was pretty much there! I'm super happy. I plan on coming out of the preamp on the L5 and going into the FX return of my London Power Standard TUT5 project amp and into my Marshall cabinet soon, but I can't stop playing long enough to do it. I have a friend who has a cab with Vintage 30's in it who's going to bring it over when I do it.

So, the main reason that I'm posting is I thought that I would build an Elite preamp, as Ty said in the interview that he took the guts out of his Elite and put it in a rack unit, with all of the knobs on 10.

I searched the web and found a schematic, layout, and parts list. I made up the preamp and although I can hear something there, it wasn't anywhere near what happened with the Midiverb. I'm getting too much gain and it's muddy.

I won't add all of the details in this post because I'm going long as usual. I'll ask these questions first.

1. Does anybody have an Elite? I would love to get some photos of the preamp (both sides) and the wiring (TBX in particular). I emailed Fender and they sent me a different schematic from 83 that shows a TBX wiring different from what I've normally seen. I have this in pdf so I can send to anybody interested. The schematic shows RA, RB, and C1 that aren't shown in the layout. Were these tagged on the pcb as an afterthought?

2. Does anybody have an Eric Clapton signature guitar or the mid boost kit? Both the Elite and the EC list 2N6429 transistors and I cannot find them anywhere. I used BC550's because the other Elite schematic (I believe it's a walnut preamp, the earlier version) showed those.

3. Not a question but I realize that my Strat has extra circuitry (my volume & tone pots) than the Elite circuitry alone.

Please bear with me, I'm not stopping until I get this preamp right. Any helpful comments will be greatly appreciated. I came to Metroamp after hearing, "You'll never get close to EVH's tone" on other forums. I have one of George's 12XXX series amps and a Strat with a Seymour Duncan '59 in it and I still can't believe how close it is. I love this place!

I will try to post some clips real soon. It's not perfect but it is an absolute blast to have this tone after listening an longing for so many years.

Darrin

[Krinkle]

Back again. Just scored an Ibanez DD200 Dual Delay (same one used on the first 4 KX albums, I believe) for $39.00!!!!!

Tried it out last night, and could immediately hear TT tone all over it. Tried a short delay on Channel A with a longer one on B for Summerland (tried to approximate the delay on the first note of the solo). It sounds good. Anybody know what settings Ty used? I read that he "modulated a tight delay and added a longer one" from the '95 Guitar mag that I have. He must have ran Channel A into Channel B. Check out the pictures for the options.

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06544.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06545.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06546.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06551.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06550.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06549.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06548.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06547.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... C06546.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anybody know where I can get the manual?

[Krinkle]

I made a few clips for my Brother, who lives out West, that are not so good, and I'm putting them up for your viewing displeasure too.

I don't have a proper video camera so I am using the video feature on my Wife's $100 camera. It actually sounds much better when I point it at the speaker cabinet (and MUCH better live in the room, it sounds thin/tinny on the video), but it looks stupid and most people just post to say that I should point it at the guitar.

I should do clips more often, I can see that I'm muting the strings a little with my pickhand and cutting the notes short with my left hand, it should ring more. I should be playing a little harder as well, it's a little too restrained. Anyway, enough of the excuses, check them out.

Here's a rundown of the gear;
- Mexican Strat with an EMG SL20 pickguard assembly (my American has an SD59 for my MA 12000 build )
- I'm using the bridge and middle PUP setting, bridge has an 89 HB, middle is an SLV single coil, not optimum I know, but it sounds better to me than my regular passive PUPs for KX tone, after all, the Elite was active.
- Lab Series L5 preamp
- Alesis Midiverb II, preset 62
- Ibanez DD200 Dual Delay, even though I probably don't have it set properly, I still think it gets me much closer to TT's tone, short modulated delay for rhythm, check out the added longer delay on the solo in Summerland, I like it, $39!!!!!!!!!!
- VHT 2502 power amp, EL34's, would probably sound better with a MB 2:90, 6L6'S plus deep setting, oh well
- Marshall 4x12, Celestion G12M-25 greenbacks, 6402 cone code, MIE 1993, might grab a few V30's at some point, lots around

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... V06557.mp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... V06559.mp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://s793.photobucket.com/albums/yy21 ... V06553.mp4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[54strat]

The new King's X Live Love In London DVD is awesome. You can see a couple of new Marshall amps that Ty is using for power out of his rack.

[T.L.]

Kings-X is one of my favorite bands, and when I saw them Live back in 1999, it was one of the best concerts I've ever seen in my life.

But with that said; they are not what they used to be, and it is quite disappointing. Their earlier music was much better, and I miss the days when they just got on stage and rocked the house. I am tired of listening to Doug on stage ranting about how much he hates God, and expressing his generally shitty negative attitude. He should keep that crap to himself, and just play the music...

[54strat]

No band that has been around for any length of time remains the same. No better or worse, just different. When a band evolves, they lose some fans and they get new fans. Look how all the great bands changed over the course of their careers. And Doug goes off into rants about lots of things sometimes but I've never heard him say he hates God. He seems to have even softened his opinion to the point of believing in everyone's god I am still a fan. I am not knocked out by every song on their records, but I felt the same way about The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, Pearl Jam, and everyone else. But there was always at least one song that made me glad I spent the money.