2061 PA20 output transformer

[smolder]

I'm planning a new build... I have everything but the output transformer... the exact spec from mercury magnetics is pretty damn expensive. I know I could use an 18 watt (I've built a few of them)... but I'm betting the difference is significant. Anyone have specific recommendations or comments? I'm in the US... so hammond, midwest, edcor are all very accessible... just looking for advice from someone who's been hear already. Thnx in advance!

[Dunkmop]

http://www.classictone.net/Marshall-Sty ... rmers.html

You tried Classic Tone yet? Awesome price, and I'm sure he'd do a custom if you required?!

[Lefty Lou]

Graydon Stuckey at GDS Amps has:

18W GDS/HEYBOER “VINTAGE” OUTPUT TRANSFORMER
An exact replica of the original Radiospares output as used on the original 18watters for $125 USD.

at this location:

http://gdsamps.com/parts/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[EFK]

Or you could just contact Phil at Heyboer directly and save yourself some money. No offense personally, but why buy from a reseller selling Heyboer when you can just buy direct?

[Lefty Lou]

Because unless smolder has the precise RadioSpares specs to wind a vintage paper wound OT transformer, Heyboer (under contract) is not going to sell an individual a tranny specially produced for Graydon at GDS Amplifiers, AND it's going to cost you more as an individual for one single custom wound transformer as opposed to buying in bulk, that's why. I believe smolder is asking for an accurate representation of a RadioSpares OT as used in Marshall's 18 watt amps.

[EFK]

Heyboer will sell anything to anyone. They have the specs for pretty much any kind of original OT or PT you might want, and can/will make a number of variations to differing price points - i.e., how many stages of interleaving you want etc. Seriously, call or email and tell them what it is that you're after, you'll be surprised. I've never been told that something is "proprietary" to any particular individual, although they may not advertise it publicly.

[Lefty Lou]

This is my one and only point that I have been trying to make. If for example a company like RS Guitarworks asks Lindy Fralin to make them custom pickups to RS Guitarworks specs such as the Psychebilly Blues Pickup Set modeled after The Kentucky Headhunters Greg Martin's 1958 Les Paul, and a consumer wants to buy those pickups NOT from RS Guitarworks but from Lindy Fralin instead, many companys including Lindy Fralin (in this scenario) will not sell them directly to the consumer because there is an agreement between RS Guitarworks and Lindy Fralin NOT to do so. simple.

How would you like it, say if you were CM or Brian Wallace, didn't make your own transformers but had Heyboer produce transformers to your vintage specs. You have an agreement with Heyboer not to release your specs or to sell CM or Brian Wallace Heyboer trannys to individual consumers, but you do it anyway. In that case Heyboer would have betrayed their client confidentiality/distribution agreement, it wouldn't exactly project the kind of image that many clients or consumers would appreciate.

[EFK]

Don't know what to say to that Lou, except to say that after long conversations with folks at Heyboer, I think in reality it is the other way around. These folks reselling "custom" Heyboer transformers are reselling PT or OT that were ***spec'd by Heyboer to a particular price point,*** not to specs supplied by any particular individual. Heyboer has the specs of pretty much anything you might want, the original specs. I'll use a Radiospares JTM45 OT for example: when I was talking to them about this, I was told: "Well, we can make it with xxx stages of interleaving like we do for (name withheld) at ______ price, or we can do it to original 1960s spec with xxxx stages of interleaving for ______ price. See what I'm saying? I was under the impression there was no client/manufacturer confidentiality involved, because *** it was Heyboer*** that was supplying the OEM info for any particular transformer, not the reseller. This makes sense if you think about it - the resellers are not transformer manufacturers! How many of these resellers have actually completely unwound a PT or OT and actually were able to blueprint what they were looking at? How many are actually able to supply the chemical alloy of the I-E laminate composition? The fine folks at Heyboer can supply ALL of this information, and supply you with what you want based upon (1) the degree of authenticity you are after and (2) the price point to which you are working. I have been through this with them many times, as I'm more than just a casual amp builder and I usually buy from them in quantity when I use Heyboer vs. any other manufacturer.

I guess not to overcomplicate this, but if the OP wants a genuinely authentic 2061 PA20 transformer, he ought to just contact Phil and say, "I want an OEM spec 2061 PA20 transformer," and that is exactly what he will get, no hype or BS. I have no idea whether it will be more or less or equal to what he could buy from somewhere else, or from a so-called "custom spec" reseller, but if he asks them for OEM directly, that is exactly what he will get. And, it will still be one hell of a lot cheaper than Mercury Magnetics.

[Lefty Lou]

Don't know what to say to that Lou, except to say that after long conversations with folks at Heyboer, I think in reality it is the other way around. These folks reselling "custom" Heyboer transformers are reselling PT or OT that were ***spec'd by Heyboer to a particular price point,*** not to specs supplied by any particular individual. Heyboer has the specs of pretty much anything you might want, the original specs. I'll use a Radiospares JTM45 OT for example: when I was talking to them about this, I was told: "Well, we can make it with xxx stages of interleaving like we do for (name withheld) at ______ price, or we can do it to original 1960s spec with xxxx stages of interleaving for ______ price. See what I'm saying? I was under the impression there was no client/manufacturer confidentiality involved, because *** it was Heyboer*** that was supplying the OEM info for any particular transformer, not the reseller. This makes sense if you think about it - the resellers are not transformer manufacturers! How many of these resellers have actually completely unwound a PT or OT and actually were able to blueprint what they were looking at? How many are actually able to supply the chemical alloy of the I-E laminate composition? The fine folks at Heyboer can supply ALL of this information, and supply you with what you want based upon (1) the degree of authenticity you are after and (2) the price point to which you are working. I have been through this with them many times, as I'm more than just a casual amp builder and I usually buy from them in quantity when I use Heyboer vs. any other manufacturer.



I guess not to overcomplicate this, but if the OP wants a genuinely authentic 2061 PA20 transformer, he ought to just contact Phil and say, "I want an OEM spec 2061 PA20 transformer," and that is exactly what he will get, no hype or BS. I have no idea whether it will be more or less or equal to what he could buy from somewhere else, or from a so-called "custom spec" reseller, but if he asks them for OEM directly, that is exactly what he will get. And, it will still be one hell of a lot cheaper than Mercury Magnetics.

Yes, I agree that Heyboer is more preferable to MM when it comes to price, and their build quality and tone are second to none. It's just very misleading when a guy such as Graydon Stuckey sells his vintage "spec'd" transformers like the 18 watt PT and OT's like he's the only one who's got them. However, in this day and age product deception, and omission of facts are standard operating procedure. In response to one of your questions above regarding how many resellers are actually transformer manufacturers I'm thinking of CM and Brian Wallace. Sure these two guys may build their own transformers, but having access to the "precise" or exact materials, production equipment/facilities to build said transformers might not be in their budgets. These individuals still have to rely on a certain amount of outsourcing to get their product to market. For all I know Graydon Stuckey at GDS Amplification could have a similar knowledge to produce vintage trannys to spec but then who knows?????

[EFK]

I know CM winds his own, but I'm fairly positive that Wallace transformers (which of course sound great) are - or at least, were - being made by Heyboer, because I've discussed some of those specs (as a reference point) with someone there in the office.

[neikeel]

I know CM winds his own, but I'm fairly positive that Wallace transformers (which of course sound great) are - or at least, were - being made by Heyboer, because I've discussed some of those specs (as a reference point) with someone there in the office.

I am pretty sure that is correct. I do know that Brian does teardowns and counts the layers, turns ratios etc as he has had a couple of vintage ones from me and had them rewound on the original iron and I have only been charged for the cost of the rewind as he sees the teardown as research.

If the OP really wants an original OT I may have a spare EL84 RS OT knocking around somewhere!

[smolder]

Thanks guys... I very much appreciate all the info. This build is for fun and probably not worth 125 for the OT. Graydon is a solid guy with a great product, but my project doesn't warrant it, at least not for the moment. I have a generic 18watt OT in place just to get the build up and working. Right now I'm fighting time and some cross over distortion ; ).

I tried the Ruby zener diode fix but I think just eliminating the cathode cap and (the standard) over driven EL84's might be the ticket.


Neikeel - shoot me a PM if you have one laying around.

[Lefty Lou]

The case is solve ed! - Peter Sellers (Inspector Clouseau)

[Joe L]

I have a generic 18watt OT in place just to get the build up and working. Right now I'm fighting time and some cross over distortion ; ).

I tried the Ruby zener diode fix but I think just eliminating the cathode cap and (the standard) over driven EL84's might be the ticket..

Sorry to resurrect this thread but for information's sake, I did the same research with the Ruby "fix" and more. The "generic" MC OT just had the wrong frequency response for overdriven EL84s and the GDS Heyboer sounded great with no "Ruby" mods.

[edisoncarter]

Maybe need a huge savings should I invest before having such stuff.