NOS Mustard Orientation

chubs · Post by **chubs** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:48 am

His scope... after having sex with me... told me it would call me... well it never did.... now I can't sleep and I feel so dirty... I can't get his smell off of me... Why..???? Whyyyyy?

frenchie · Post by **frenchie** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:25 pm

know i understand why you all guys have extra hole punched in your chassis

..... voltage selector is a good excuse huh ....you guilty guys

( just kidding ! )

5150loveeddie · Post by **5150loveeddie** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:30 pm

S.Marshall wrote:
5150loveeddie wrote:
Well the scope says otherwise...... I guess it's lying
I'm not saying your scope is lying I'm saying that it's not an inner/outer design like most caps that are marked at one end. There are two layers of foil and film. Each lead has it's own but the way it's rolled there is no inner/outer.

And for the record..I don't know your scope well enough to call it a liar!!

Ah ok I get ya for the design. There is still an outer foil of some type, I've tested some vinatge Sozo and they all have it where the band is, as for Philips the o'scope test shows a huge jump from one side to the other, much stronger then with any other type cap I tested for that...

Seems there is no constant for the Philips, you must test them individualy, if you want to be orientated perfect, if it does change things or not??!!

gutpile · Post by **gutpile** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:07 pm

Thanks for all the replies.... I am assuming the o'scope is the ONLY way to test?

5150loveeddie · Post by **5150loveeddie** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:22 pm

gutpile wrote:Thanks for all the replies.... I am assuming the o'scope is the ONLY way to test?

I guess so..

In my actual amp I have a fizz snag, same as Billy Batz and most of us have it more or less.

So in my quest of trying to reduce it or illiminate it completly, I'm welling to try everything possible. Dan did a lot already, the o'scope will surely not be a bad thing to have. Anyway I tested four (4) of my caps in the amp so far (all the output coupling and PI caps) had two (2) not it the "proper" position, I swap them around, didn't change anything for the fizz, not even a hair less....so...

I'll test the remaining ones just in case it could make an improuvement...

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=19696

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?t=7582

S.Marshall · Post by **S.Marshall** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:25 pm

I getcha! The way i'm looking at it is by rolling you have an inner and outer on the first roll, but then as it's rolled more you end up with more of a layer situation then inner/outer. One thing I did find odd was that on each one I opened (4), one end had "mustard" seepage. Only one end.
Could this be affecting the scope?

Also the way you described it as having a foil end threw me. Both are foil ends.

Do you have some mustards to cut open?
i don't have a scope so I can send you some mustards to test and cut to see if we can get to the bottom of this.

S.Marshall · Post by **S.Marshall** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:32 pm

Oh and since we're on the subject of scopes, what's a good one to get?

-Steve

5150loveeddie · Post by **5150loveeddie** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:03 pm

S.Marshall wrote:I getcha! The way i'm looking at it is by rolling you have an inner and outer on the first roll, but then as it's rolled more you end up with more of a layer situation then inner/outer. One thing I did find odd was that on each one I opened (4), one end had "mustard" seepage. Only one end.
Could this be affecting the scope?

Also the way you described it as having a foil end threw me. Both are foil ends.

Do you have some mustards to cut open?
i don't have a scope so I can send you some mustards to test and cut to see if we can get to the bottom of this.

No idea dude!!

Better wash your hands now with all that mustard on them, toxic shit in there some say...

The o'scope I got seems perfect for the tube amp jobs we do, got it from Weber speakers, only one they have and it is the cheapest I found.. MOS-620, $275bucks I think it was, analogue of course.....

chubs · Post by **chubs** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:27 pm

I just tested this with my Tektronix scope and NOS mustard, 0.1 and 0.018uf and it doesn't work.

I get the same exact results with either orientation. With both the holding of that cap and the holding it above a AC line.

gutpile · Post by **gutpile** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:09 am

oops...

gutpile · Post by **gutpile** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:15 am

a couple last questions...

Does the "tail" on the mustard play any role where the foil is located... take a look at the pics below, in each cap there is a tail on the body that extends longer on one end than the other... does this have any correlation to how the cap should be positioned? Also, in the second pic, what is the difference between the two different 0.10 caps? why are they different? which ones sound better? thanks in advance for your replies...

Mike

Wicksy · Post by **Wicksy** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:01 am

Did Marshall do this back in the day?

S.Marshall · Post by **S.Marshall** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:09 am

From the Aiken article.....

"What if the capacitor doesn't have a banded end?
This marking of the outside foil was very common in the "good ol' days" of electronics, but, sadly, most capacitor manufacturers nowadays do not bother to mark the outside foil, so we're left to fend for ourselves."

Mustards are from the "good ol' days" so I would think Philips would have marked them if it applied. I would think Marshall would have dealt with this also.

What do you mean by "foil end" on a mustard?

Here is a mustard....Foil/Film/Foil/Film with the foil layers offset so each lead contacts it's own foil. Then it's rolled and rolled and covered in "mustard". The only difference is the seepage of mustard at one end because of it being hung to dry. Opposite end of seepage would be the "tail".

basisfunction · Post by **basisfunction** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:49 am

Just to clarify, when he says foil end he is referring to the outermost layer which has the promise of being used as a shield. The inner layers are usually the same material with dielectric in between and are not a concern.

S.Marshall · Post by **S.Marshall** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:43 am

Ah! I gotcha. "Foil End" gives me a more absolute mental picture. I see what your saying but I'm having trouble seeing how it matters in this design.

That don't mean shit though cuz I don't know a 10th of what you guys do.

Sozos' are marked right? Who has one they can cut open and compare. Is it like a mustard or is it a true inner/outer where one lead is all inner and one lead is all outer?

Am I looking at this all wrong???