12 Series Build - Muddy lows...HELP.

funk49 · Post by **funk49** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:00 pm

So I've been experimenting with the tone from my 12 series Metro build and for the life of me, I can't seem to get the tone I want. Below is a list of the gear:

Guitar: Rossington LP w/ RS/Fralin True 60's & the RS historic cap/pot kit.
Effects: None (for sake of tonal comparisions)
Amp: 12 Series with Merc Mag iron, 5 choke, jumpered.
Cab: 69-70 slant cab with pre-rolas.
Mods and Attenuation: PPIMV w/ 16 ohm HP.
Tubes - Old GT and chinese tubes.
Volume level: Bedroom...yeah I know that sucks.

The issue is that the lows are muddy and flubbing out. Highs are great...a little phasey sounding...not sure why, maybe the HP.

At first I attributed this to the HP, but I get the same type of thing with the PPIMV. Last night I experimented using both as I haven't to date, a little better but still muddy lows. I played the same through my Guytron, same cab and the lows sound perfect.

I'm at a loss...I can only think it can either be tubes or the fact that I need a nice MXR EQ. I just bought the NOS MXR 10-band off eBay so maybe that's it.

Any suggestions on what the problem could be?

toner · Post by **toner** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:58 pm

I'd start by removing all the unnecessary stuff to make sure it's the amp (attenuator, pedals, etc.). Just plug straight into the amp with a known good cable without jumping the channels and try each channel separately.

If it's still bad, try these:
- different preamp tubes
- check the bias
- power tubes (with re-bias)

If none of the above helps, post some pics and/or sound clips.

darrell · Post by **darrell** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:46 am

attenuator set real low will muddy the shit out of your tone to me the PPIMV is better.. like toner said try removing some stuff first being the attenuator ..

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:09 pm

Thats a bit of a thing with the HP. I hate to put it with the power brake but really I think the 2 are very similar sounding and they both do weird things with the highs and especially lows. Moreso then other attenuators

Crunchboy · Post by **Crunchboy** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:56 pm

where are you running the bass? With the amp's volume up high, the bass will start flubbing at around 2 with humbuckers. The HP does acentuate the phasing effect, in my experience. Back off on the ppimv, pres., and treble. It's directly related to driving the output stage hard and with too much nfb/presence.

funk49 · Post by **funk49** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:02 am

Thanks for all the input guys! I need to get out and open the thing up and unfortunately, I can't do at the house. My house is very close to my neighbors and it will kill her if i open it up. I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to look for some other players, so I'm sure I will be hearing what it will do.

When I played the guitar through my 67-68 50W, it sounded like the cat's ass, so I'm guessing that all of the restraints I'm putting on this beast at bedroom levels is killing the tone.

The one nagging question is how did Ralle get his killer tones at bedroom volumes? IIRC, he was using a hotplate as well at some really low volumes.

Crunchboy, the bass is about 1 o'clock as anything more than that flubs and farts and anything less thins out the sound. My biggest complaint is the flubbing out out of the bass frequencies and I'm coming to the realization that it's a direct result of the attenuation and PPIMV.

toner · Post by **toner** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:29 am

funk49 wrote:...My biggest complaint is the flubbing out out of the bass frequencies and I'm coming to the realization that it's a direct result of the attenuation and PPIMV.

The hotplate is probably the main problem, IMO. I don't notice any bass problems with my PPIMV (Larry/Rockstah), even at bedroom levels. Most attenuators mess with the highs at low levels and cause the bass/mids to sound "mushy".