the vintage tremolo tuning thread

[Tone Slinger]

I think if ALL the screws were threaded for the body (4 holes at the neck pocket) as well as the neck (4 holes), it would 'vibrate' the screws loose, or possibly put too much torque on the neck where the screws enter it ? The 3 bolt '70's necks only have the one screw that is both neck and body threaded (micro tilt), which had its pro's and cons. Neck set up was easier, but stability was questioned.

Malmsteen knows about the 'tone' of the vintage 6 screw tremelo. He realizes that the strings length from the nut to headstock is important to resonance. I often compare his dynamic lead tones to his 'copiers' ('liar' song ). They (most of Shrapnel, like McAlpine, Moore, Gilbert, etc) got that horrid compressed 'double locking' tremelo tone. Yngwie tone was probably 3 times better. I compare 'Oddeysy' (damn my spelling is off) to any of those other shredder tones. Night and Day difference.

[Reeltarded]

i can tune one of my Strats, place it in the floor, stand on the arm and kick the strings, pick it up, whack the arm.. and BOOM. Perfect tuning.

the trem must float the thickness of a nickle on the rear edge. You tune, then wiggle the arm and slap it. Then you tune, wiggle the arm, and slap it. then you tune and wiggle the arm and slap it. About 5-6 turns into this, all you have to do to get tuning back is slap the arm. You can even make up your own obbsessive actions to do the same thing.

I have been doing this since about 1981.

There are other parts to it. When the guitar has no strings on it, adjust the outside two screws until they touch but don't move the trem, and all the other (4) screws are not touching the plate AT ALL. NONE... all that bullshit Fender says is... bullshit. They couldn't setup a guitar if they tried.

Everything else is also bullshit. Nothing else will work. Nothing else. Learn it, and live it. Rock.

[Tone Slinger]

What you just described is what EVH used to do (though his wasnt floating). If he bent ANYTHING over a step, with his left hand, he would go flat. To 'reset' he would dip the bar (do a divebomb, etc). He got SO used to having to do this, that his style was affected by it. He was whanging all the time !

This is EXACTLY what I wanted to overcome. I dont want to have to use the bar for 'TUNING', I want to use it for tremelo/divebonb effects. I've perfected a series of mods (many of which have existed 'individually' but never put togather before) that keeps a vintage 6 screw style tremelo in tune as well as a double locking unit. It isnt fool proof though, and requires proper set up, like winding the strings properly on the posts, etc.

[Reeltarded]

It's second nature. You just basically said that you want to drive without using the steering wheel to make adjustments.

G'luck!

what I described does not work without floating. They rarely go out of tune. Like I said, I can tune it and throw it on the floor stand on the arm and kick the strings and pop it back.. playing hardly needs a tweak once it is steady anyhow.

[garbeaj]

Just a reminder about my results and methods...

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=37852" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have changed a few things since this and my tuning stability and tone (first album style tone at least) improved.

I went from using GHS Mediums (.11's) to Fender Bullet XL strings-.009's with a .046 bullet end string for the low E. These are the same sizes as the Fender 150XL's that Ed used to use except the low E and the same that Ed uses in his EVH branded strings with the heavier bottom E(...no doubt to help with drop D tuning) except of course mine have the bullet ends to sit in my vintage block just so.

I also switched to the Fender Medium celluloid pick that Ed used in the early days.

I have installed a new F-spaced Dimarzio Super Distortion...I'm really pleased with the results. Of course this is relative to my Rockstah Marshall 2 x 12 50W combo-the DSD really works well with that type of circuit for the early tones.

As Tone Slinger and myself have pointed out in this and many other threads, Ed's playing technique in the vintage trem days was shaped specifically to the guitar he was playing (ie. the original Frankenstrat or the Destroyer).

But if you listen to my old clips of "Eruption and "Ain't Talkin' 'Bout Love", my guitar stays pretty much perfectly in tune even with heavy strings...

[Tone Slinger]

It's funny, but I have figured out (as Garbeaj has as well ) how to keep a FENDER 6 screw in tune, BUT, have always had trouble with the Gibson tunomatic style. Even BEFORE I figured out all the specifics of a keeping a Fender 6 screw in tune 'WHILE USING THE BAR', I never had ANY problem keeping it (Fender 6 screw style) in tune if I WASNT using the bar.

The Gibson tunomatic style is another story all togather. It just pulls FLAT (the G, B and High E) !

I guess its just that I'm a strat 25 1/2 scale player and my style is based on that 'tension'. But when I play a 24 3/4 scale (Gibson style) I'll knock it out of tune pretty quickly.

I think I know why (and its related to my Strat 'findings'). I'm hot on the trail of 'GIBSON/tunomatic bridge tuning stability .

[garbeaj]

It's funny, but I have figured out (as Garbeaj has as well ) how to keep a FENDER 6 screw in tune, BUT, have always had trouble with the Gibson tunomatic style. Even BEFORE I figured out all the specifics of a keeping a Fender 6 screw in tune 'WHILE USING THE BAR', I never had ANY problem keeping it (Fender 6 screw style) in tune if I WASNT using the bar.

The Gibson tunomatic style is another story all togather. It just pulls FLAT (the G, B and High E) !

I guess its just that I'm a strat 25 1/2 scale player and my style is based on that 'tension'. But when I play a 24 3/4 scale (Gibson style) I'll knock it out of tune pretty quickly.

I think I know why (and its related to my Strat 'findings'). I'm hot on the trail of 'GIBSON/tunomatic bridge tuning stability .

It took me many years to get tuning stability on Tune-O-Matic bridges since I played my strat and tele's for most of my life. I got a Les Paul in 1988 and I never was able to get the tuning quite right either.

I finally got the stability that I was searching for by following Frudua's method for tuning stability on Gibson style guitars. He has a video that describes how to string the instrument properly and his various techniques. Big factors include 1.)tuning only "up" and not past the pitch you are targeting (if you overshoot, you must detune and then tune up) and 2.) having the guitar in playing position or in a neck rest or jig that imitates playing position when you are tuning up. (Good techs know this and there is a Dan Erlewine jig that holds the guitar in this position.)
Now my Destroyer and my Flying V (the two Tune-O-Matic bridge guitars that I have now) stay completely in tune perfectly, even with the very wide bends that Ed does in "Feel Your Love Tonight", "On Fire" and other songs he recorded using Tune-O-Matic equipped guitars...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo5i2wkXaoY[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J34tzntFUtc[/youtube]

[Tone Slinger]

Great, thanks for posting this .

[garbeaj]

You bet...most good techs know this stuff, but it was almost completely new to me when I saw these videos. The proof is in the pudding and since I've followed this method I have absolute zero tuning problems with tune-o-matic bridges. I hope you have the same great results that I have experienced!

[stef]

I have absolute zero tuning problems with tune-o-matic bridges.

+1

[Tone Slinger]

Its weird, but I have always stretched my strings just like that and 'tune up' to pitch, etc, and have a alternate way to wrap the string on the post, which works for strats, but in the case of the tunomatic bridge, the way Frudua wraps the strings seems to work. I am gonna apply the idea of having LESS string past the saddle on my Les Paul. On the stop bar the string stops at the back of it. I'm gonna drill it to where it is almost out of the bar near the saddles. This should reinforce the tuning even moreso.