Floyd Rose tone- top mount vs. recessed

[chrisom]

I like the Floyd Rose resting on the flat top of the guitar with a slight angle from the studs to the body (15-degrees or less maybe?) for VH stuff. For simulated pull-ups 'Eddie-style' you end up having to mute the string while depressing bar, then pluck as you pull up, but it still sounds cool with delay ("AFU" right before solo), and at least the bridge rests on wood and facilitates an easy-peasy set-up & nice action. No routing required under tremolo if the neck pocket is done right.

Full-floater Floyds with angled neck pockets are nice for some Vai/Satriani/Shrapnel stuff, and routing underneath the bridge allows for some cool vibrato bar effects, but I would want a separate guitar for this. I agree the original old 'West Germany' Floyd Roses are my favorite, perhaps with an upgraded threaded sleeve-style bar and a fat sustain block added...

[chrisom]

I guess that doesn't solve your problem of the bridge being higher with the Floyd. Vai complained about this in an early interview, and had pads next the the tremolo on his Jackson Soloists to rest his picking hand on.

Next thing you know, he's endorsing/playing Ibanez soloist-shaped guitars with the deeper, angled neck pockets and recessed tremolos- so there you have it. All you really need is the same thing with a Floyd instead of an Ibanez tremolo, set into an alder Strat body. I still think KnE offers something like this...

[chrisom]

$15 extra for the route. Could be done on a Strat body instead of soloist; Looking at the route, it has 2 separate rout depths for added stability (esp. for basswood bodies ). You could have them lessen the depth to your desired amount for recessed non-float setup. Neck pocket- angled or non-angled? Not sure, but it could be decided as-needed as you design it- Stewart McDonald would know for sure... It gives better break angle/vibration transfer which might be nice, but also lowers action which might be too low with a recessed trem. It IS do-able though, you just have to experiment a bit.

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I could be way off-base, but if I remember right, in some pictures of his homemade Kramer 5150's I swear it looked like the Floyd was almost flat on the body and the neck pocket was deep and un-angled. Seemed like Ed had everything about as low to the body as you could go without actually recessing it into the body. But was many brain-cells ago and much conjecture has been done since then on the subject... Check the old photos on Google Images... I actually think it was mid-eighties 5150/OU812-era Guitar World interview where the first page has a big picture of Ed standing blowing smoke rings holding the guitar. I remember thinking, "How does he play with it set that flat? It like it's already half-dived before you even hit the bar?!!"

[Tone Slinger]

Good advice man, your right, Steve Vai had the same trouble with the bridge height before his Ibanez endorsement.

I ended up ordering another KNE Azusa Franky (no floyd holes, only the 6 screw route). This one is gonna be lighter than my first one. Cant say enough good things about the sound and build quality of KNE bodies .

A floyd, regardless of the route/set up, is just never going to do for me what my vintage 6 screw trems do, as far as sound tone and playability go. My top mount floyd/hard ash Warmoth strat I will always keep, for when going for certain sounds, but I'm resigned to the 6 screw tremelo.
This 'mid life' crisis stuff has taught me 2 things,

1) Getting older only goes in ONE direction (though I was shooting for 'getting younger')

2) Hard learned knowledge cant be challenged, nomatter how much we want to

[chrisom]

All my Strats have standard vintage-style vibratos; I like them better too. I do however want to build one good Strat from KnE that's Floyd Rose equipped- minus the recessed routing. Can't decide between 1HB top-rout, 1 HB in a pickguard with the standard strat pickup routing, or a "Frankie". In other words- Do I choose a VHII, a VHI or a Fair Warning?

I'll probably go with the VHI option, in case I someday decide to build it into a 'Prince' Strat. That thing looks great.. Back in 1984 I took my future ex-wife to see Cyndi Lauper, and John McCurry played one just like it- minus the EMGs... The opening act was this new unknown band called 'The Bangles', who covered the Yardbirds "I'm Not Talkin'...

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[Tone Slinger]

You could do a rear routed Azusa (not Azusa Franky) with a bridge hb'er and neck single coil. Later you could put a pick guard on it (vh1) or you could make it more BBee by not using the pick guard

[chrisom]

I've always loved the bumblebee, but I'll probably do the Frank since it gives me all the other options- pg, no pg, standard vibrato or Floyd; Back in 1987 I had one of those 7/8 sized Japan Squier Strats that I turned into a red/yellow version of the bumblebee, again trimming the edges to a less round shape.

You know, those bright red Squiers with the black headstocks, alder body, 2 humbuckers, gibson-scale, and standard vibrato sized to line up w/ humbuckers. Even came with a full-size sustain block and big frets. I found another on eBay a few years back, but ended up getting rid of it. Those were serious guitars, way before the 'HM Strats' and all that nonsense...

I sold the striped one for $150 back in 1991, with a set of late 1970's Gibson Les Paul Deluxe mini-humbuckers in it, so I could keep my SD '59 and the other stock humbucker...

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[Tone Slinger]

Cool, almost has a Westone sort of look. The early to mid '80's squire 3 bolt, big CBS headstock, etc strats kicked the American made Fender strats from the same era's ass. My buddy has a off white/cream/yellow lookin one(like Malmsteens) that kicks ass. I've played several others at guitar shows over the years and find them great guitars and at a great price.

One thing to consider when ordering the KNE Azusa Franky body. I think they use a different neck pocket spec for each bridge route type. The 6 screw holes are there for authenticities sake, but I believe the neck pocket is cut, by default, for the top mounted floyd. I know Eds may have been shimed or something,but I'd check with KNE on that aspect to be for sure.I specify "No floyd holes, only the vintage 6 screw route. Neck pocket cut to standard vintage Fender spec ".

[chrisom]

I did it. I kept the 1984 Floyd Rose and the Kramer case, but sold the Kramer Focus neck, pickups, and body for about what I paid for it, and used the cash to pull the trigger on a KnE "Azusa Frank". I was going to get alder but I read Jas O's interviews where Ed's is made from ash, so just for the sake of time-machine authenticity I chose ash. Plus I only have one ash-body guitar. I wanted both tremolo screw drillings, but took your advice after a bit of research and chose the standard 2 3/16" Strat neck pocket (thanks for that by the way).I keep looking at this HUGE high resolution pic of EVH's "Frankenstein" on my PC desktop...

[Tone Slinger]

Cool deal man If you just put the order in,I would try and get Mitch to see if he would try and keep the weight down a bit (that is unless you dont mind the weight). He can pre weigh blanks. Hard ash is some heavy/dense stuff for sure.My first Kne was 5 lbs and 13 ounces, body alone (the one in my avatar). 4 1/2 to no more than 5lb would be ideal. All of the hard ash strats I've built or tried, have a pretty bright tone combined with great attack. What sets a good one over a bad one is the resonance. If it has a fuller resonance, it just fills up more sonic space. All hard ash I've tried have excellent sustain though,just some have thin/shrill sustain.
Get your wood filler ready, cause that ash isa bitch to finnish/paint

[chrisom]

Did it. E-mailed Mitch and asked for pre-weigh. Not sure if you meant 4.5 to 5 lbs for weight of blank or completed body (assuming body). If I painted it as a Frankenstein it would be getting 3 layers of paint- black, white and red- probably with no sealer, as you can see the ash grain marks in the finish wear on Ed's. If I do a regular Strat pickguard and solid color, I will definitely have to deal with the filler issue ... I appreciate the advice

Edit: He said though the listed weight range might be impossible for Northern ash, he would find me the lightest one he had in his entire stock. Great guy. That will work for me.

[chrisom]

Does anyone know... My 1984 Floyd has no shims (which is fine with me). According to the Floyd Rose website, an oldie with the factory kit-box shim equals a 10" radius, and without it equals a 12" radius.

I need to take this into consideration when ordering a neck, but I keep reading conflicting info on the web about the Floyd Rose bridge-part radius. Warmoth will do a straight non-compound 12" radius for a surcharge, and I love the 12" radius on my Eric Johnson Strat.

I would rather not have to deal with ANY shims other than possibly in the neck pocket- none under the tremolo saddles. I want the fretboard radius to match the bridge radius. I know the Floyd nut is a 10" radius but I don't think that will be an issue. I would like to know for sure about the bridge radius though before I order a neck- though that's dollars down the road at this point...

[Tone Slinger]

I hear ya man, floyds are strange, considering the nut and bridge radius. I got a '06 OFR on my '06 Warmoth build. I got the '10-'16 compound radius. Its great,but like you mentioned, the bridge radius on mine is a '10 I believe. My g & d strings are a bit higher than they need to when you set the bridge height to where the E's are set low. I think I'm either going to shim the low E and High E saddles,or use a A/B saddle in place of the two E's. I often wonder how DeMartini had his Charvels set up with those straight '16 radiuses ? Guess there was shiming on both the saddle and the nut huh ?

Mitch is super cool,and I'm sure you will get a Franky that is no more than 5lbs due to him pre weighing the blanks. I tell ya, I like mine, but getting older(my back ) has dictated to me that the guitar cant be be real heavy. I'm currently sanding/sealing my latest Azusa Franky. It is quite a bit lighter and is gonna be Polaris white when I'm done.

[JimiJames]

It's all about feel for me so, I prefer recessed . Top mount sits a tad too high for me.

[chrisom]

My Asuza "Frank" body arrived last Wednesday; That was fast turnaround time. Ordered on Sept 28th and shipped on Oct 3rd. I haven't weighed it yet but i'm pretty happy with what I see. I love the end-grain! Thanks Mitch!

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