Metropoulos Forum

Posted: **Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:26 pm**

ah the ancient riddle of iron and glass and paper .you cannot truly judge and decree tone without careful reflection.summing is the word a real time consuming pain in the ass .how does one know when it comes down to splittin hairs. my new thing is using a quad 6v6 amp . the power tranny is out of an old magnavox 4 6v6 stereo amp from 59.the output is a hoffman wd 30 .the center tap reading is dead solid perfect . i have not givin an ear to anything else in a month. most people regard mercury as the best.truth is i dunno whos who but ive seen heyboer build a damn fine partridge clone for tracys sc 50 home grown.its pretty close i can tell ya. i dont think you can go wrong with any of the aforementioned builders its a taste thing .i do know that none of them will be at full potential without glass and the right speakers.but a thought provoking article george ...shit why did you have to activate my brain .....now its working again! remember that most power sections are pretty much the same .the only thing that makes an amp different from another is the front end design and the 3 magic components that power it .ever since ken fischer passed away i can hardly keep tungsrams or prewar eis in stock.it became evident to me that tubes were indeed what make and made the trainwrecks so popular and expensive.i have an express clone that will fall flat on its face if the wrong pres are used.in fact this thing is so sensitive that it can get just as weird with an amperex in v1 as a jj if it does not read the driver .wierd how he factored the tubes at the end of it .transformers in this are both heyboners .id go with wallace or cerrams just because they are so up on what the mechanics are.sergio has too many kt77s so id be afraid id try and strangle him to get some.lol i bet john gaynors design is pretty dam good too ...hes no slouch .you wanna see odd have a peep at this.!

Posted: **Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:23 pm**

hi tube tramp ....i tryed so many times to find you...i need good tubesssssssssss...can we have a little talk???? i beg you

Posted: **Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:12 pm**

I need a replica of the C2668 Dagnall to put into my plexi modded to 800 spec. which one do you reccomend? metro and MM only do the C1998 right? i sent an email to heyboer to ask if they do a replica of the C2668 (waiting for the answer)

Posted: **Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:12 pm**

Thanks, this answers one of my questions...excellent reading.

Poke

Posted: **Wed Dec 23, 2009 6:43 am**

I tried Mercury's before in one of my tweed builds. Didn't like it. I had another build the same spec but with Hammond transformers and it kicked its ass. It sounded much more like a vintage amp should sound! I can definitely see how the Mercury's could have great potential in some amps, especially if you're going for a more modern tone, but for vintage I would stick with the Hammonds, or Heyboer's which I'm loving in my plexi build right now.

Posted: **Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:00 pm**

I have a Heyboer 125P7A clone and the PT rocks! I am totally satisfied with it and it was slightly under $100 and here's the real kicker - they shipped it to me to try before I paid a dime!!! I dare you to find a better service.

With that being said I must admit the babe in Murcury ad (vintage guitar) with the babydoll shoes is pretty cute!

Posted: **Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:36 am**

Cheech wrote:My question with the transformers is ageing. After the years how will a MM sound compaired to Hybour vs the original.

Kramer wrote:I tried Mercury's before in one of my tweed builds. Didn't like it. I had another build the same spec but with Hammond transformers and it kicked its ass. It sounded much more like a vintage amp should sound! I can definitely see how the Mercury's could have great potential in some amps, especially if you're going for a more modern tone, but for vintage I would stick with the Hammonds, or Heyboer's which I'm loving in my plexi build right now.

Doesnt this really depend on what a person is looking for? I mean, if you want an amp to sound aged, as if it was a great example of what a vintage amp sounds like today, it seems like Heyboer's or Hammonds are the way to go.

But think about it... IF a person was looking to replicate Hendrix Band Of Gypsys tone, or Duane Allman from the live Fillmore recordings, those guys werent using "vintage" amps. They're vintage NOW, but back then, those amps were relatively new.

Honestly, aside from hearing recorded material, I haven't been playing long enough to know what playing a '68 100 watt, or a '71 50 watt Marshall was like when the amp was new IN '68 or '71, but we certainly love the way those older amps sound NOW, after they've aged for 40+ years, especially regarding what George said:

VelvetGeorge wrote:Do you have a classic amp with a blown part that you want to replace and not change the tone? The bad news is that nothing really sounds like a 35-year-old tranny. Especially one that has been on it's last leg for a while. Fortunately, either of these parts will get your amp sounding like it would have sounded earlier in it's life.

It seems to me that if a player wanted to replicate a specific early tone that was recorded at that time, then going with the best iron available (MM) to replicate an ideal example of a new amp from that time period would be the way to go. Those amps would have had new iron, new caps, resistors, etc. In effect, we would be hearing a great sounding, recently built amp with fresh components in it, not aged components.

If someone wants to replicate the best aged vintage amp as it sounds today in ideal operational health, then maybe Heyboer or Hammond iron is the ticket.

Any thoughts on this?

Niblos wrote:With that being said I must admit the babe in Murcury ad (vintage guitar) with the babydoll shoes is pretty cute!

+1

Posted: **Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:46 pm**

Here's a comparison of MM and Heyboer plus Weber and Magnetic Components. http://www.classictone.net/PaperVsPlastic.html
To me, the MM did not have the brightness/clarity of the Heyboer (at least to my ears/headphones!

).

Posted: **Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:50 pm**

Your correct.

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:47 pm**

All the current "clone" trannies can be good sounding but as we old Marshall guys will tell ya finding an iconic sounding one is limited to whether a great one was cloned right in the first place. I've collected 100 watters for many years and have discarded so many due to the OT just not having the magic. No amount of tweaking with NOS tubes or tuning the circuit could make up for bad sounding iron! That being said, the best sounding clones I've heard as far as the tone and feel I'm looking for is concerned were the Marstran ones because he cloned "iconic" sounding ones and stuck closest to vintage specs on the components and reverse engineering. I've also recently installed a Heyboer clone OT in my 69' PA 20wt that just sounds KILLER so I've got to side with them only because thats the company Brian uses and this repro is "dead on" exact! Just my two cents on that and everyone's results will vary!

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:09 pm**

I thought Marstran obtained his transformers from Heyboer.

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:16 pm**

Brian aka Marstran is actually THE point of orgin and source for most of the details about old Marshall transformers. Heyboer and many of us builders have benefited immensely from the knowledge he has shared. Many of the parts that were tore down and documented came from Brian. He is the man!

Just want to give credit where it is very deserved.

george

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:32 pm**

Thanks, good to know.

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:28 am**

VelvetGeorge wrote:Brian aka Marstran is actually THE point of orgin and source for most of the details about old Marshall transformers. Heyboer and many of us builders have benefited immensely from the knowledge he has shared. Many of the parts that were tore down and documented came from Brian. He is the man!

AMEN to that brother George! I really feel that Brian has a special talent in the iron department and he surely has helped me with my own amp and he has promised to get me back to where I started once my old OT blows up!LOL! And I'm gonna hold him to that for sure! I really had to twist his arm to just go ahead and order the 20wt OT clone from Heyboer because he wasn't sure it would sound that great since he didn't do the tear down but that is how anal he is when it comes to getting a really great sounding clone. Some people have ears and hands for this stuff and he is definitely DA MAN in that department!

Just want to give credit where it is very deserved.

george

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:33 pm**

George, Tommy,

Thanks for the street cred on the transformer mojo.

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