UGHHH programming drums

[Necrovore]

Anyone understand how to actually do this? Im not talking using a pre made MIDI track, but starting from exactly scratch. I understand (somewhat) how to get the drum sounds onto the editor and write something and play it back, but I have no earthly clue about setting a track up to any real timing.

Using
Nuendo 2.2(dont want to hear about how old this is.... buy me the new one)
Steinberg LM4 drum synth.
DFH samples

I can get the kit loaded and into the editor but after that it gets pretty fuzzy.

I do not want to use Fruity Loops which I also have as I need more than 4/4 time. Any quick down to the nitty gritty help you can pass my way will be greatly appreciated.

[45auto]

do you have a keyboard you can trigger the sounds with? you'll need to have a midi interface.

[JimiJames]

For $99 on fleaBay Steinberg Groove Agent 2 w/key would help calm your nerves. A great VST plgin for Nuendo.I love it and sounds like a million bucks...

JJ

[Billy Batz]

I know its a bit more expensive but Reason has aout the best drum sequencing program Ive ever used. All the rest of the sound altering devices are cool to use on it too. Or you can use your Waves reverb if you want.

[NitroLiq]

This is such a loaded question in that a lot of it is personal preference as to how you like to work and also depends on how the plug-in you're using deals with MIDI. What specifically are you having trouble with? If you can narrow it down a bit, I can probably get you up and running. I use Nuendo 2.2 as well. For drums, piano, and other samples, I run NI Kontakt...used to program drums quite a bit (now use mostly audio drum files instead MIDI). Still have my old Roland hardware sampler that I used to use for programming Drum 'n' Bass/Jungle/Breakbeat back in the mid-90s.

Are you looking for tips on realistic programming? How to input notes? Edit data?

[Necrovore]

[quote="NitroLiq"]This is such a loaded question in that a lot of it is personal preference as to how you like to work and also depends on how the plug-in you're using deals with MIDI. What specifically are you having trouble with? If you can narrow it down a bit, I can probably get you up and running. I use Nuendo 2.2 as well. For drums, piano, and other samples, I run NI Kontakt...used to program drums quite a bit (now use mostly audio drum files instead MIDI). Still have my old Roland hardware sampler that I used to use for programming Drum 'n' Bass/Jungle/Breakbeat back in the mid-90s.

Are you looking for tips on realistic programming? How to input notes? Edit data?[/quote]

Yes, Kind of have that figured out, Yes.

I understand when you ask a question like this it always has the end user what I like to use biasness to it. I'm not going to say any of the above mentioned programs, soft synths are bettter than others because each works for whoever use them.

What I am trying to do is use the point and click method in the Nuendo drum editor to create reasonablely realistic sounding drum tracks. I do not have a keyboard as an interface because I don't technically need one programming drums this way.

I am trying to figure out how to match up the timecode in the drum editor to real world "AUDIO" files.

I am not totally sure how to set this up to write drum tracks this way as I just the other day finally figured out how to actually enter into the drum editor and make sounds with it. I do have extensive experience with Fruity Loops as well as Modplug Tracker, but want to try to use one DAW this round.

What I am mainly trying to do is 1.) Create a realistic sounding(somewhat) click track as those damn metronome beeps fuck me up royally. And 2.) Write a scratch track to show drummer what i am sort of wanting to achieve as I audition them.

[NitroLiq]

1.) Create a realistic sounding(somewhat) click track

You should be able to load up the LM4 and go into the metronome settings to choose it as the click source. I used to do this in Logic Audio with their Klopfgeist instrument. Or even using one of my drum kits in kontakt, I'd just choose a midi channel at like 16 or something and use a stick sound. Alternatively, without using the metronome, You could just record a bar or two of quarter notes using the LM4 then edit the velocity so certain notes have an accent. Then just cut and paste throughout the length of your song and use that track as a click.

2. Write a scratch track to show drummer what i am sort of wanting to achieve as I audition them.

If you're not playing the notes in via a keyboard, I don't understand why you need the metronome. If I'm understanding correctly, you're step-writing each drum into the drum editor, right? It's just a matter of getting the note/rhythmic values right. For, "realness", I don't know the capabilities of the drum editor...can you slide notes back/fwd in time on the tick level? That's one key to it...program your kicks so they're on the beat, then nudge your snares up in time a little bit to push the beat or back in time to make it groove a bit more. Make sure you're thinking like a drummer as far as drum parts...two feet and two arms. One important thing for realism is creating velocity layers or using samples that have them. For example, if you use a softsampler, many pre-packaged drum kit sample intruments layer the same drum, let's say a snare, recorded on different parts of the skin, at different amplitudes, etc. These are then controlled by velocity or how hard you hit the key on a midi keyboard (or in your case how you edit the values). This is important because where you hit the head and how hard make subtle variations in pitch and volume. At an rate, even if you're using a simple drum program. If you have the capability to slightly modify pitch/volumes, you should. It's subtle but makes a difference. I've gone lowbrow and even done it with a pitchbender on my keyboard.

Typically, I just lay in 1-8 bars of kick and snare and quantize it how I like. I may edit in new notes or erase some. Then I add HiHat and keep building things up. I also pan the drums across the stereo spectrum from the audience's perspective, not the drummer's. Adding and cutting up loops on top of the drums can give some motion to the track as well. Or using delay on certain pieces of percussion can add motion.For me, the most difficult and time-consuming part is trying to program realistic fills...I'm not a drummer so getting the rhythm/velocity/drums right becomes a bear.

I am trying to figure out how to match up the timecode in the drum editor to real world "AUDIO" files.

Are you talking about having audio tracks already that aren't metronome exact and lining your drums to them? Is there a click track or drums to be replaced on the audio? Have you read up on creating tempo tracks?

[Necrovore]

1.) Create a realistic sounding(somewhat) click track

You should be able to load up the LM4 and go into the metronome settings to choose it as the click source. I used to do this in Logic Audio with their Klopfgeist instrument. Or even using one of my drum kits in kontakt, I'd just choose a midi channel at like 16 or something and use a stick sound. Alternatively, without using the metronome, You could just record a bar or two of quarter notes using the LM4 then edit the velocity so certain notes have an accent. Then just cut and paste throughout the length of your song and use that track as a click.

2. Write a scratch track to show drummer what i am sort of wanting to achieve as I audition them.

If you're not playing the notes in via a keyboard, I don't understand why you need the metronome. If I'm understanding correctly, you're step-writing each drum into the drum editor, right? It's just a matter of getting the note/rhythmic values right. For, "realness", I don't know the capabilities of the drum editor...can you slide notes back/fwd in time on the tick level? That's one key to it...program your kicks so they're on the beat, then nudge your snares up in time a little bit to push the beat or back in time to make it groove a bit more. Make sure you're thinking like a drummer as far as drum parts...two feet and two arms. One important thing for realism is creating velocity layers or using samples that have them. For example, if you use a softsampler, many pre-packaged drum kit sample intruments layer the same drum, let's say a snare, recorded on different parts of the skin, at different amplitudes, etc. These are then controlled by velocity or how hard you hit the key on a midi keyboard (or in your case how you edit the values). This is important because where you hit the head and how hard make subtle variations in pitch and volume. At an rate, even if you're using a simple drum program. If you have the capability to slightly modify pitch/volumes, you should. It's subtle but makes a difference. I've gone lowbrow and even done it with a pitchbender on my keyboard.

Typically, I just lay in 1-8 bars of kick and snare and quantize it how I like. I may edit in new notes or erase some. Then I add HiHat and keep building things up. I also pan the drums across the stereo spectrum from the audience's perspective, not the drummer's. Adding and cutting up loops on top of the drums can give some motion to the track as well. Or using delay on certain pieces of percussion can add motion.For me, the most difficult and time-consuming part is trying to program realistic fills...I'm not a drummer so getting the rhythm/velocity/drums right becomes a bear.

I am trying to figure out how to match up the timecode in the drum editor to real world "AUDIO" files.

Are you talking about having audio tracks already that aren't metronome exact and lining your drums to them? Is there a click track or drums to be replaced on the audio? Have you read up on creating tempo tracks?

About the realistic sounding click track. I come from the school that uses the old fashioned type tick tock click track. Not the accented Beep then 3 more quieter beeps. this is what I will use to lay official scratch tracks.

About the second portion you answered to. I understand what you are saying. I just want to create a simple stock beat that I can show a drummer then have him expound on that. I understand about the velocities and all that, and if needbe I will do full on programming but at this point its quite a bitch

Yes I have guitar stuff recorded but its not recorded to a click track via Nuendo, I use a small battery powered metronome that I sit on my desk to play to when I record. I like to use the beat only not the segmented metronomes that come with DAW's like a song that is in 4/4 time and you get all four quarternotes in the metronome. I hope I wrote that right....

Yes I want to write the drum parts to the guitar parts then go back and re record the guitar parts to the drum rhythms. Can you suggest any references to create tempo tracks? the DFH version I have diudnt come with one, and Nuendo really doesnt go into it in the manual.

Also playing to a real sounding drum track also helps instead of just using a metronome.

[NitroLiq]

The way I would do it is like what I said before

[Necrovore]

[quote="NitroLiq"]The way I would do it is like what I said before

[NitroLiq]

No problem, man. Glad to help.

[Bluesgeetar]

My secret weapon for drums.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 00,00.html

Since buying this I have retired all my drum software. that stuff is a headache and a big creative mood killer for me.

[JimiJames]

lol ... Have a Roland SPD20 just for fun and guests that I have join in on a jam night...

JJ

[Necrovore]

My secret weapon for drums.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 00,00.html

Since buying this I have retired all my drum software. that stuff is a headache and a big creative mood killer for me.

How do you use this? As a trigger device or what? I am a hunt and peck type drum programmer who has no real drumming skills.

[rockstah]

My secret weapon for drums.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 00,00.html

Since buying this I have retired all my drum software. that stuff is a headache and a big creative mood killer for me.

How do you use this? As a trigger device or what? I am a hunt and peck type drum programmer who has no real drumming skills.

i might sound funny but after messing with drums machines for at least 20 years and midi samples on a computer for 10 years let me say this - SAMPLE - trying to create real sounding drums beats with these always lacks the human feel so things end up, least for me always alittle sterile sounding let alone how tedious it can be to program beats.

samples aint just for them hip hoppers no more! you can get in the styles rock drums loop sample library cds with all the drums parts, intro, verse, bridge, chorus b chorus all in nice files that you just drag and drop into your project window. makes it faster and more conducive to the creative process for sure!

check into drum loop groove sample libraries.