A little ditty I made for my daughter

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:11 pm

George, if you get a chance, next time you're putting together a clip, can you do a quick comparison take through the mackie pre vs. the new vr12 preamp kit you just put together? Curious to hear the difference.

Pete

Post by **VelvetGeorge** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:19 am

This is as quick a little clip as you can get. I plugged into one and then the other, and the levels are close but not exact.

I should have used a pop filter as well.

George

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:55 am

Interesting. The N72 sounds a bit more full-bodied and warm, though noisier (or the mic is picking up ambient noise)...the Mackies were quieter, maybe not as warm and full-bodied but still sounded good...more mid-rangey. Were the differences as subtle on your room monitors?

Bainzy · Post by **Bainzy** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:36 pm

NY Chief wrote:Bainzy, I have been giving a lot of serious thought to the BR1600. What do you think of the 1200? I'll be getting my hands on a Yamaha AW16G real soon to play around with for a while. Still going back and forth between getting a stand alone deck or computer set up. Biggest downer to me is the size of the LCD's on the lower priced models but I really like the drums and stuff you can do on vocals on the 1600. Seems it would great for diddling around with for song ideas.

It's great for song ideas, and the range of effects is fantastic. The only problem I have with it is that the preamp lets it down a bit, so as my friend Niczy puts it, tracks "sound like theyve been recorded in a house" a bit. I'm hoping feeding it with a really decent preamp like the N72 would cure that problem, but I just worked out how much it would cost including shipping and customs tax for just 1 module (and the chassis/supply) and it's £525 GBP

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:37 pm

That's exactly why I wanted to hear George do a taste test clip to see if it was worth the price, especially for folks on a budget. I use a mackie 1202VLZ into a 20-bit event (now echoaudio) gina card at home and when I used to work in a studio for a living, I was a big fan of using 1066 and 1073 modules so this kit had my interest piqued...was curious as to how drastic the difference was between the pres. We'll see after I finish my first amp build...I may hate electronics by the time I'm done and want to take u[p photography or something...haha. If I still have the building bug, I may order one of the LA2A kits mentioned in the other thread...I could get by with the mackie pres for the song sketching at home deal but could really use a good compressor...if not the clone, then a cheaper RNC will work... The N72 pre sounds nice but for what I'm doing, not as important at the moment for the price.

NY Chief · Post by **NY Chief** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 7:40 pm

Maybe a stoopit question...

If I'm running computer recording I can use any pre I like into a sound card / interface? How do you use a pre on a DAW that has a self contained pre? Can the internal pre be bypassed? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:37 pm

It would really depend on the hardware used. For example, the gina I mentioned before is a PCI card with a breakout box with 2 analog ins/6 outs, as well as a digital s/pdif i/o. You need a separate preamp to get the signal to line level. Right now, I have everything plugged into the mackie and I use the mute button as a buss to the gina's inputs. (the mute buttons on the Mackie send the signal to alternate ouputs on the back)...the downside is that it's post EQ so it's running through the entire channel.

For the cleanest signal path, you'd want something like this:

mic pre > compressor > input/output interface (with no built-in pres).

Depending on the hardware though, there may be away to bypass the preamp part...not positive but it would be a nice feature for sure. Otherwise, you're just adding noise to the signal. Maybe it would still sound good. *shrug* Just not the purest way.

I miss the studio days, just being able to patch signal this way and that....neumann M49 >neve 1073 > LA2A > patched straight to the tape inputs...

Bainzy · Post by **Bainzy** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:55 am

Would a line in function on a DAW bypass the preamp? I'm thinking specifically on the Boss BR1200CD.

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:35 am

That looks like a fun little unit. I don't think you can bypass the preamps with that. I read a little bit of the manual. What you could do is experiment with gain staging...it's not the absolute cleanest path but you can do it.

mic > external pre > external compressor > mic 1 or mic 2 inputs on the boss unit with the gain down.

The trick is adjusting the source gain from the external preamp and the compressor without distorting (unless that's what you want) with the input vol down on the boss...then adjust that to bring to optimum levels. Gain staging in recording setups is its own ball of wax....you could probably find more via google.

Bainzy · Post by **Bainzy** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:36 pm

That's what I'm doing now with a cheap £30 tube mic preamp - it's worked to improve the sound, but I'm still not getting the presence, cleanness and space between instruments that I can hear on professional recordings or the clips you guys make with high end preamps. The sound is a bit muddy. I'm not sure whether that's because the external preamp isn't good enough, or because I'm using gain staging.

There is the line input (phono sockets) - they have no gain control (possibly therefore no preamp?), how about connecting an external pre through XLR with an XLR>phono adaptor into the line in sockets?

NitroLiq · Post by **NitroLiq** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:03 pm

You could try it and see. What kind of mic are you using?

Bainzy · Post by **Bainzy** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:42 pm

Shure SM57 for my plexi, and today I ordered a Studio Projects B1 condenser for vocals and acoustic guitars. For bass I plug straight into the BR1200CD.

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:44 pm

i keep saying - maudio. or RME or play with the big boys and go digidesign.