Nuendo users: Advanced FX routing

[NitroLiq]

Question forany nuendo gurus and I'm guessing this pertains to any version before 4 as they changed some of the routing possibilities and it may (or may not) be resolved in the current offering. Let's use a lead vocal scenario: On a typical mixing board, you can set up the aux returns on channel faders, meaning you can also use the aux bus on the return to send the return to another effect. For example, lets say on our lead vocal, we put a delay on s1...this returns to ch 16. You can then have a reverb wired to s2 and send this delay return on ch. 16 to the reverb. In Nuendo, there are FX tracks but these have no aux send capabilities so in our example while you can send the vocal to the mono delay...you can't put an effect on the return. Has anyone figured out a workaround for this? My solution thus far has been this but I'm not even sure if it's the same thing:

vocal > mono delay (s1) > FX Track. I then create a group track and assign the lead vocal output to the group, then use the group's bus to send to a reverb and control the balance with the lead vocal, fx, and group faders. It's like jumping through hoops so someone tell me I'm over-complicating this. I've researched around and using groups seems to be the only way to do this...just not sure I'm setting things up or mixing this stuff correctly. To clarify, I'm not trying to put effects in linear order like you would like this using all the busses:

voca > dly > verb> etc

I'm trying to put an effect on an effects return.

Any ideas?

[St August]

Thats the way I do it Pete unless you want to put both of your efx on the fx channel mono vocal>s1 >delay/ reverb FX channel > 2 Buss

[VelvetGeorge]

Prior to version 4, you had to set up groups in order. You can only route a group to another group that was created after your original.

You could have your original vocal track, create two groups (one with delay, one with verb). Then create a new group and route all three to it.


george

[NitroLiq]

Thats the way I do it Pete unless you want to put both of your efx on the fx channel mono vocal>s1 >delay/ reverb FX channel > 2 Buss

I haven't tried that. I was under the impression you had to have a separate FX track for each effect. You're suggesting putting two different FX under one FX track and controlling the balance from within each respective effect? That's still not the same as putting an effect on another FX' return, right? I have to read up more on the way Nuendo uses sends and outputs....it's easy enough to get the basics down but a bit of a pain in the ass for more advanced routing. I miss Logic.

You could have your original vocal track, create two groups (one with delay, one with verb). Then create a new group and route all three to it.

There's an idea. It's pseudo-similar to what I'm doing...thank god for virtual faders, I guess...quite a few channels for one track. I'll try a few different ways and see what I like best. Thanks for the ideas.

[St August]

Right youll have to set your levels of each effect in the 1 fx channel then use the fader to control the overall output of the effects.. or you could do it Georges way ... there are no rules when It comes to Virtual..

[NitroLiq]

I know. It's just that my head is still wrapped in the traditional mixing board way of doing things...Even earlier versions of Cubase and Logic had a similar flow so it made more sense to me. I'm surprised that Steinberg didn't have the foresight for better (read less of a workaround) routing capabilities.

[St August]

Im glad I learned Nuendo first it makes OTB cake!!

[NitroLiq]

Experimenting quite a bit with this stuff, lately. I've come to the realization, especially with the fact that you have to set up the groups in order, some serious pre-planning is in order....more so when you have several group tracks per instrument for the FX routing. So here are some more questions:

• How are you guys generally organizing your FX and groups at the start of a project? I'm trying to set up a project template resembling a typical analog session so at the moment am using FX tracks for 4-6 common effects (like if you had gear wired to the busses), then creating group tracks for special chains.
• How are you deciding when to use groups for effects as opposed to FX tracks or are you using groups for all effects?
• When are you bussing to groups as opposed to assigning a channel's output to a group?
  
• How are you keeping everything organized in a huge mix?

[St August]

I always set up 4 groups
1 Drums
2 Guitars ( Heavy)
3 Vocals
4 backing vocals

Everythings else to Main stereo buss

Then depending on how I want to use the effects, I will add them to the group or assign to a FX Buss or both. It all depends on what Im wanting to hear.

[NitroLiq]

So you're using groups in the more conventional way. I was just thinking that if you did some of the special chains like what george mentioned where you end up with 3-4 groups per instrument and its FX and multiply that by many instruments, it would be easy for things to get out of control and lose site of what's going where.

[St August]

Itry to keep things as simple as possible to much clutter and confusion
will not make a good mix for me.. I operate from the standpoint that its all outboard gear.. Now I use all outboard gear...lol

[NitroLiq]

I usually try to keep things simple as well...just trying to explore some of the more advanced things you can do and broaden my understanding of signal flow within Nuendo.