Metropoulos Forum

This is Phil, (Strat78)

So this was with the Destroyer/Super70 pickup. I used the 6-band only slightly tighten up the low E string a bit. The variac was at 83volts, but I will try it much lower next time.Those were black back speakers.

(He also used an Alex attenuator to bring it to a manageable volume in the last ciip. We added a 50k mid pot. )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OzfOeK ... e=youtu.be

Compared to this varaic lower, plugged straight in, with little or no attenuation. Before the 50k mid pot was added. It's an sm-57 on a pre-rola cone and a Sennheizer 421 on an old Goodmans cone recorded in stereo. The guitar in the clip was an Ibanez Destroyer with an old Mighty Mite pickup going into the flanger and then to the amp.

https://soundcloud.com/iskra68/strat78onfire2014

Which clip do you prefer and why?

The first clip obviously ROCKED (Phil ) The second clip wouldn't play SoundCloud couldnt 'find it' ?

As far as how this '68 relates to reproducing Ed's '68 tone, I think it is 'off' in the mids somewhere. Maybe a bit TOO much mid bark ? There is that great woody knock to it though that is the same as Ed's. The trannys(original)are obviously important in that regard.

Sorry it looks like that link was taken down. It was working when I tested it. Lol

So woody! Years of break-in time or inherent tonality of the original transformers??? I'm leaning towards the latter...

There are many great clips of clones and originals but that one is at the top of my list. It may bore you to hear this strat78 but god damn that was kick ass. Tweaked and refined just right. Flavorful.

Velva wrote:So woody! Years of break-in time or inherent tonality of the original transformers??? I'm leaning towards the latter...

There are many great clips of clones and originals but that one is at the top of my list. It may bore you to hear this strat78 but god damn that was kick ass. Tweaked and refined just right. Flavorful.

No, I'm not bored with this at all, I'm glad your hearing what we are hearing! It took a while, but we were able to track down some nice NOS caps for the screens and pre-amp filter, everything else is pretty much all original. The setup was all old stock too: mid 70's Destroyer, mxr 6-band and p-90, ohmite variac and a slant 4x12 with black backs. Now back to the regularly scheduled 5150 III coverage.

Phil, can you shed any light on how loud the YT clip was...ex. was it club gig level? Also was this mic'd with more than one mic an d how about placement on the cone? Thanks bud.

This time I just put two mics on one cone. One was just off center and the other pointing half way out on the cone. The amp was super loud probably a little higher than club levels. I just had the Alex going to prevent any damage to the cab. The chassis was open so there was some space ship kind of whistling through out. The super 70 pickup seems to like the 50k mid pot. I'm wondering if the PEC 50k potentiometers are not as effective as the CTS pots for this purpose.

Strat78 wrote:This time I just put two mics on one cone. One was just off center and the other pointing half way out on the cone. The amp was super loud probably a little higher than club levels. I just had the Alex going to prevent any damage to the cab. The chassis was open so there was some space ship kind of whistling through out. The super 70 pickup seems to like the 50k mid pot. I'm wondering if the PEC 50k potentiometers are not as effective as the CTS pots for this purpose.

I am using an alpha 50k pot....

The NOS 50k I put in looks very close to the original RS that are stock in this amp. The carbon might be a different consistency than newer pots. I backed off to around 2:00 which seemed to be the sweet spot. I think there might be slightly too much heat from the 6-band, but at least it is not dominating the tone. Rgalpin called it best saying this tone was pretty close except for a woolliness in the low end. That was a revelation to me because I never could put my finger on that aspect of the first albums tone but it really is there. Here is the clip StarGuitar was trying to link to. This was with a Greco Destroyer and the amp still had a 25k mid pot.
https://soundcloud.com/iskra68/dec5-2014-onfire

Strat78 wrote:The NOS 50k I put in looks very close to the original RS that are stock in this amp. The carbon might be a different consistency than newer pots. I backed off to around 2:00 which seemed to be the sweet spot. I think there might be slightly too much heat from the 6-band, but at least it is not dominating the tone. Rgalpin called it best saying this tone was pretty close except for a woolliness in the low end. That was a revelation to me because I never could put my finger on that aspect of the first albums tone but it really is there. Here is the clip StarGuitar was trying to link to. This was with a Greco Destroyer and the amp still had a 25k mid pot.
https://soundcloud.com/iskra68/dec5-2014-onfire

Man,
Everytime I hear that clip it puts a smile on my face. I'd be interested in hearing it with the 50 mid pot same set up as this clip. You wouldnt have to play the whole thing. I mean, if you wanted to. That "On Fire" clip sounds killer!! You really tore it up Phil!

So back to the original post, which clip and why?

The first clip (YouTube). I like the playing better on "On Fire" but when referencing which one is closest to Ed's actual sound, I'll say the YouTube clip was. Phil has a uncanny ability at nailing Ed's licks (the pitch of them). Nobody has lined all the ducks up in a row yet imo. Jnew get VERY close, as does many of Phil's clips. Lots of folks get an aspect that lots others do not, etc. Efraser and Sean McFly have the production saavy down. This is very important obviously. I actually hear the most authentic early Ed-'tone' in rgalpins 'Variac Clip'.

This particular '68 12xxx is great obviously. I think that the mids are a tad TOO vowelly as compared to Ed's. This amp sounds ALOT like the 'Hair Of The Dog' tone imo

Maybe a little more crumbly break up from setting the variac even lower will do the trick. That's where Rgalpins clips really hit the mark. I actually like the tone of this amp better than the 12301 at this point, especially the youtube clip. We need to get more hash browns into the tone to get closer to VH. For now, the youtube clip tone is probably more suited for On Fire, I'll try another clip with that song.

First clip (FYLT) sweet, fantastic job as usual Strat!