Post your best "brown sound" clips!

Crunchboy · Post by **Crunchboy** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:58 pm

Here's a clip of the closest I've gotten. Did this with a reissue 1959SLP with PPIMV.

http://www.soundclick.com/util/download ... 68954647-3[/url]

DELANEY · Post by **DELANEY** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:43 am

Nice CB,

This is my only clip. JTM45 no MV, no Pedals

http://webpages.charter.net/yogore/shar ... sample.mp3

DEL

VHoholic · Post by **VHoholic** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:58 pm

Not going for anything exact here but here's a few i recorded. I tried to give some clips my own vibe and taste. Enjoy!

Van Halen I tone 'Runnin with the devil'
Feel your love tonight
Unchained
Hot for Teacher
Fools
Mean Street
Everybody Wants Some
Various VH song parts
Outta Love Again

DELANEY · Post by **DELANEY** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:35 pm

Hey VHoholic,

Very cool stuff. I'm glad to hear you are keepin the faith. I would hate to think that if we were all blown to pieces, the only record of modern guitar players are the sounds from CW and Diva backups.

You definately have the feel and tone.

My Eruption sounds naked.

DEL

VHoholic · Post by **VHoholic** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 1:43 pm

DELANEY wrote:Hey VHoholic,

Very cool stuff. I'm glad to hear you are keepin the faith. I would hate to think that if we were all blown to pieces, the only record of modern guitar players are the sounds from CW and Diva backups.

You definately have the feel and tone.

My Eruption sounds naked.

DEL

Thanks man, i think your Eruption sound great!!

bmf5150 · Post by **bmf5150** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:42 pm

you guys are all great players!

VHoholic · Post by **VHoholic** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:36 pm

bmf5150 wrote:you guys are all great players!

Thankyou Stan!

Guitar Adjuster · Post by **Guitar Adjuster** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:37 pm

VHoholic-----

Killer riffs. I noticed on your web site that your Unchained clip was done with one tube? Will this damage the amp? How loud was it with just one tube? Thanks--keep on rocking!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:04 pm

i would think it would damage the amp,but it hasnt damaged vhoholics yet!best to ask dan aka billy batz!

VHoholic · Post by **VHoholic** » Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:31 pm

Guitar Adjuster wrote:VHoholic-----

Killer riffs. I noticed on your web site that your Unchained clip was done with one tube? Will this damage the amp? How loud was it with just one tube? Thanks--keep on rocking!

Thanks man! I basically just did it to try and get the volume as low as i possibly could without having to use an attenuator. To be honest with you i'm not really sure if it can damage the amp, i just took the chance for the heck of it lol. I wouldn't recommend trying it unless you speak to a tech about it first. I make sure i always keep a variac on it also so i don't blow up the tube. As far as volume goes, with one tube, Variac set to around 80-90 volts, and a sleeping bag draped over the 4x12 cab lol, it's very low. I can actually still hear the TV while i play. Here's an article about all of this from londonpower.com

"Q: In a magazine Q-A, a player wanted to pull tubes to reduce power, but the "expert" said this would cause a meltdown of the remaining tubes. Of course, it was suggested that the expert's attenuator product was the preferred way to go. Is any of this true?

A: This is a person who should know better!

Removing tubes from a multi-tube fixed-bias output stage is never a problem. You can remove any number of tubes, and yes, that means you can take one tube out of a two-tube amp; one, two, or three out of a four tube stage, et cetera. This sounds heretical to techs stuck in the mire of convention, but it is something that has been known since tubes were invented.

The even-number tube extractions reduce power symmetrically. Neither the tubes nor the transformer will be damaged. Power will be reduced and so will frequency bandwidth - you will lose some bass and some treble. This is the point that switching the impedance selector to a less-than-load setting is supposed to correct, but it is completely subjective whether you should. The only 'should' of the matter, is do I like it this way, or do I like it that way?

In the uneven tube extractions, asymmetric power reduction occurs. Conventional thought says "the one tube on one side of the circuit will be trying to match the output of the two tubes on the other circuit half". This is wrong. The single tube can only produce so much power, and that's all it does. It doesn't melt down. The transformer does not blow up.

So, what's missing from conventional thought? The realization that tubes are "self-limiting power governors", which was stated in The Ultimate Tone (TUT), and explored in more detail in TUT2 and TUT3. TUT4 explores all of this in great detail. Our "expert" should get a copy.

In the end, you can pull tubes to reduce power, unless the amp is cathode biased - then you have to split the bias resistor. In any case, you do not have to worry about the impedance selector either."

Billy Batz · Post by **Billy Batz** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:55 am

Thanks for posting that. Ive been saying that for years to people who say its suicide and act like Im dumb for suggesting it to people. Not that Im an expert but Ive actually talked to real techs about it and not just repeated rumors and Ive been doing it for years with amps of all kinds with zero issues ever. I never have pulled 3 tubes though. Just never tried it is all.

bmf5150 · Post by **bmf5150** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:02 am

so you can run a stock plexi with one power tube safelly?
stan

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:42 am

which could be a good or bad thing depending on your circuit -

5150loveeddie · Post by **5150loveeddie** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:10 am

on one tube operation:

VAlves don't care about plate load....and there is no matching going on in the first place..
The currents go up when the load resistance value on the primary goes down....so you get peak AC currents that may damage the OPT winding..
Four EL34 valves just happen to have the same plate resistance as a single EL34...
A EL34 at the operating conditions in a 100W Marshall will have a plate resistance roughly around 17K to 19K ....a chinese tube will have totally off the wall numbers..
Well in Push-Pull Parallel...each side of the OPT will have 17K /2 and that would be 8.5K plate resistance...then each side of the OPT is in SERIES so that 8.5K + 8.5K goes back up to 17K for the total source resistance for 4 EL34's in push-pull parallel....
A very poor method "rule of thumb" to determine usable plate load of a pentode is to use 1/10 to 1/12 the source resistance....this is in many tube textbooks intended for techs and hobbiest..
Well, 1/10 of 17K is 1.7k ...well, well what a coincidence...that just happens to be what Marshall used...
A single EL34 has a source resistance of 17K BUT only uses HALF the number of primary windings that the set of 4 valves used....so the reflected impedance is the square of the turns ratio...so that means using just one side of the OPT will relect only 1/4 of the impedance seen by the entire primary... SO a single EL34 will see a plate load of 425 ohms...this will produce some high peek AC currents....but since it is only one tube the primary wire should handle it...
If you want to get the plate load up a bit higher to a more acceptable range ...then drop the secondary termination switch to 4 ohms while using a 16 ohm cab or load.. This will then put a 1.7K load on just one side of the OPT, thus better suited for using just a single EL34 valve..
The other concern is that since this is a AB1 amp..you will have a waveform that is assymetrical when using one EL34..this will result in massive amount of even order harmonics from the output stage...
The only draw back is the the DC current is not BALANCED in the OPT and will result in lower inductance and lower flux density headroom, meaning the OPT wil saturate from playing much lower..
An alternative is to put a single EL34 on the other side of the OPT and only connect the DC bias to it's grid and to dissconnect the coupling cap on that side so as to not sendf any AC signal...this way you can cancel the DC in the OPT but still maintain using a single EL34 for the amplification of the audio..

rockstah · Post by **rockstah** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:36 am

5150loveeddie wrote:on one tube operation:

VAlves don't care about plate load....and there is no matching going on in the first place..
The currents go up when the load resistance value on the primary goes down....so you get peak AC currents that may damage the OPT winding..
Four EL34 valves just happen to have the same plate resistance as a single EL34...
A EL34 at the operating conditions in a 100W Marshall will have a plate resistance roughly around 17K to 19K ....a chinese tube will have totally off the wall numbers..
Well in Push-Pull Parallel...each side of the OPT will have 17K /2 and that would be 8.5K plate resistance...then each side of the OPT is in SERIES so that 8.5K + 8.5K goes back up to 17K for the total source resistance for 4 EL34's in push-pull parallel....
A very poor method "rule of thumb" to determine usable plate load of a pentode is to use 1/10 to 1/12 the source resistance....this is in many tube textbooks intended for techs and hobbiest..
Well, 1/10 of 17K is 1.7k ...well, well what a coincidence...that just happens to be what Marshall used...
A single EL34 has a source resistance of 17K BUT only uses HALF the number of primary windings that the set of 4 valves used....so the reflected impedance is the square of the turns ratio...so that means using just one side of the OPT will relect only 1/4 of the impedance seen by the entire primary... SO a single EL34 will see a plate load of 425 ohms...this will produce some high peek AC currents....but since it is only one tube the primary wire should handle it...
If you want to get the plate load up a bit higher to a more acceptable range ...then drop the secondary termination switch to 4 ohms while using a 16 ohm cab or load.. This will then put a 1.7K load on just one side of the OPT, thus better suited for using just a single EL34 valve..
The other concern is that since this is a AB1 amp..you will have a waveform that is assymetrical when using one EL34..this will result in massive amount of even order harmonics from the output stage...
The only draw back is the the DC current is not BALANCED in the OPT and will result in lower inductance and lower flux density headroom, meaning the OPT wil saturate from playing much lower..
An alternative is to put a single EL34 on the other side of the OPT and only connect the DC bias to it's grid and to dissconnect the coupling cap on that side so as to not sendf any AC signal...this way you can cancel the DC in the OPT but still maintain using a single EL34 for the amplification of the audio..

very kewl post