John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL clone)
Moderators: VelvetGeorge, RACKSYSTEMS
- Tone Slinger
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6520
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 am
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
On tracks on VHII like "Bottoms Up" or even 'Light Up the Sky", you can tell that Ed's 12xxx isnt turned up all the way, letting that 5000pf bright cap do it thing. Gets that edgy trebley twang goin.
Rip Ben Wise (StuntDouble) & Mark Abrahamian (Rockstah)
- rgalpin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:08 am
- Location: Washington, DC
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
me too. this has me intrigued. i've never messed with that cap that i can remember. i took it off and never looked back. all this talk about the sparkle and dialing the warmth AND the brightness has me heating up the old soldering iron.rgorke wrote:Could you elaborate on this? Are you saying to use a bright cap? I haven't had one on in years. Am I missing something if I pull the volume back 8 or 9?Strat78 wrote: 5000pf works in reverse: when the amp is dimed it is bypassed, dial vol1 back and you start mixing the dimed warmth and power with that beautiful sparkle and sizzle (RWTD rhythm tone vs. solo tone demonstrates this).
taking the chassis out again.....
- Tone Slinger
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6520
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 am
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
At 10, the bright cap is supposed to be bypassed (watch Georges video on his Metro builds (12xxx) clip (first one 'features'). Well if you DO NOT turn vol1 to 10, well you get that bright cap funk.
Rip Ben Wise (StuntDouble) & Mark Abrahamian (Rockstah)
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 675
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:07 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Finland
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
Yep, think of it like it's making your bright ch coupler smaller. All it does is to trim off lower frequencies, depending on where the volume is set. You can dial in bass tightness easily.
- rgalpin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:08 am
- Location: Washington, DC
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
yes, i added 5600p to vol i. very cool. i moved my response to a new topic.julkke wrote:... You can dial in bass tightness easily.
http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41580" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- fivecoyote
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1419
- Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:28 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 7
- Location: NJ
- Contact:
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
TS, call me crazy but I wonder if that isn't the 3-pickup single coil guitar seen in the pics...though you still may be right about the amp....Tone Slinger wrote:On tracks on VHII like "Bottoms Up" or even 'Light Up the Sky", you can tell that Ed's 12xxx isnt turned up all the way, letting that 5000pf bright cap do it thing. Gets that edgy trebley twang goin.
At it awhile, still learnin'
Get woodalicious tonology factoid learnin' at http://www.WOODYTONE.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!
Get woodalicious tonology factoid learnin' at http://www.WOODYTONE.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:23 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 7
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
I've read that "Bottoms Up" was the single coil Strat.
- Tone Slinger
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6520
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:31 am
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
Yeah, even with the amps volume back a bit with a hb'er, that "Bottoms Up" rhythm sound is still 'strange'. I also have heard about it possibly being that single coil strat in the staged VHII pics.
That second album has more slight changes in the guitar sound than the first. I think its due to some songs being the Franky without the eq box (DOA) and some with ('SGMAD', Beautiful Girls) along with possibly 2 tracks (basic rhythms) being the single coil strat ('Bottoms Up' and 'Light Up The Sky' intro to 'Women In Love')). "I've been under the impression that 'Dance The Night Away' and 'Women in Love' were done with the hacked Destroyer.
That second album has more slight changes in the guitar sound than the first. I think its due to some songs being the Franky without the eq box (DOA) and some with ('SGMAD', Beautiful Girls) along with possibly 2 tracks (basic rhythms) being the single coil strat ('Bottoms Up' and 'Light Up The Sky' intro to 'Women In Love')). "I've been under the impression that 'Dance The Night Away' and 'Women in Love' were done with the hacked Destroyer.
Rip Ben Wise (StuntDouble) & Mark Abrahamian (Rockstah)
- rgorke
- Senior Member
- Posts: 4509
- Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:37 am
- Just the numbers in order: 13492
- Location: Drought Ravaged SoCal
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
I think your comment is a bit out of line. There are several guys here that have contributed both on the building side (which is what this board is about) and providing clips above and beyond many other members, pretty much nailing the VH1 and beyond tone, Strat78 is one of them. Just do some additional searching in other parts of the forum.Jose Flanders wrote:That's odd - I don't recall you ever contributing to the RWTD ISO test thread. I assume since you essentially claim here there's nothing to getting the 1st album tone, you would have offered something there.Strat78 wrote:For me, the VHI recording process is neither here nor there when it comes to dialing in how the rig actually performed in the studio at that time, and from my experience much of that first album had little significant tone changing post e.q., because those tones are simply what a good (or bad) 12xxx can produce.
Do you have a clip you'd like to share with the board that gets close to the first album tone... say the RWTD ISOs?
Let's hear it.
"If you make a mistake, do it twice and smile and let people think you meant it." Jan Van Halen.
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1407
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:05 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 7
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
He has showed us many moons ago... RWTD as well, years before the rwtd iso thread
Roger is right, use the search option
Roger is right, use the search option
Last edited by stef on Wed May 22, 2013 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- rgalpin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:08 am
- Location: Washington, DC
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
good enough for me. i'd enjoy hearing someone articulate the differences they hear between:Jose Flanders wrote:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... layer=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Go here and download the ISO clips (I could tell you to use the search function, but I'm actually helpful - unlike some):
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13736" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... layer=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with regards to amp tone (not recording techniques or the like). how do these two amp tones sound different to you? anyone?
-
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1407
- Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:05 pm
- Just the numbers in order: 7
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
rgalpin wrote:good enough for me.Jose Flanders wrote:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... layer=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Go here and download the ISO clips (I could tell you to use the search function, but I'm actually helpful - unlike some):
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13736" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=13735" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
+1
- rgalpin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:08 am
- Location: Washington, DC
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
If you are attempting to get an amp tone that allows you to enjoy the vibe you hear on VH I in your bedroom, it will take you on a path that does not resemble what ed did.Jose Flanders wrote:... Ed has a thicker/more compressed, harder and hairier tone.
A lot of dudes here are getting great live tone, but very few are actually attempting to take it a step beyond and replicate the album tone as found on the album.
Let's not confuse "live tone" with "album tone"... "album tone" is "live tone" with extra mustard.
“I was told by Michael Anthony personally that Ed’s tone in the studio for VH1 was not all of the glory we hear on the record. He said it was very shrill and trebly, and that is why Ted [Templeman, producer] and Don [Landee, engineer] had to pan him hard right on rhythm and hard left on leads, soak it in verb – and there is a ton of verb on there – along with some pretty damn creative EQing.”
...
Ed's RWTD ISO tone is really not that spectacular... I'd say it's ho-hum. What Ted and Donn did to it on the album, however, is genius.
...
According to the MA quote above, the amp tone that was at the core of VH I was "very shrill and trebly."
So, if you want exact VH I clips, start working on getting an irritating trebly shrill tone and then bury yourself in ProTools post production to fix it. Now you are on the path that led to VH I tone. have fun with that!!
If the MA quote is true, then that's why we never heard that album tone again. It was a band aid on a treble-fest experiment. Let the ghost chasing begin!!
HOWEVER...
If you listen past the post production, which takes imagination, patience, and speakers that surpass your average crap computer speakers, THEN you can start listening for the nuances that you love in those tones and create your own experiment to try and capture those nuances or response, openness, hardness, hair, compression... and go for a tone that has those things but isn't a treble-fest disaster in your bedroom or on stage for that matter.
Do you consider the ISO tone a representation of the ALBUM tone or the LIVE tone? It certainly isn't trebly and shrill, so if the MA quote is accurate, we can assume that these ISOs are heavily produced already and that we really have no example of the "live tone" that was used to create the "album tone" on VH I.
Now... back to the Band on the Run bonus tracks on disc 3... Let me roll it...
- efraser68
- Senior Member
- Posts: 1129
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:13 pm
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
I can tell from the '78 England boot that his tone/rig was intact, not shrill on the high end, plenty of saturation, and close to the album tone for sure. That's a tone to chase! Maybe it was shrill to MA hearing it in such a small place
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BCwtJ_3p8Y[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BCwtJ_3p8Y[/youtube]
Remember Ben Wise (aka Stunt Double) & Mark Abrahamian
http://www.soundclick.com/EricFraser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.soundclick.com/EricFraser" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- rgalpin
- Senior Member
- Posts: 3668
- Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:08 am
- Location: Washington, DC
Re: John Suhr Provided Details Regarding the SL68 (JMP SL cl
crazy good. haven't heard that in a long time. thanks for posting. no post production tricks here.efraser68 wrote:I can tell from the '78 England boot that his tone/rig was intact, not shrill on the high end, plenty of saturation, and close to the album tone for sure. That's a tone to chase! Maybe it was shrill to MA hearing it in such a small place
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BCwtJ_3p8Y[/youtube]
but if you took that tone and close mic'd it, and ran it dry up the middle and you were listening in headphones as you are laying down tracks, it might just shred your ear drums and sound pretty trebly and nasty - could be where the MA quote came from.
Now... back to stormin' the castle.