Randy Rhoads slaved his Marshalls? (clue Ed did as well?)

[SLP1959]

To answer the question if other guitar players were slaving their Marshalls in the EVH era. Randy maybe did as well. Randy obviously was influenced by EVH and it's known he used a variac in the studio. And maybe he used some more 'Ed' tricks. If we can figure out Randy slaved, then where he got the idea from? It could be a clue that Ed did slave as well. (of course no guarantee)

Look at these pictures all taken at DOTG july 1981:

First take a look from the front, looks like he daisy chained his amps from right to the left, plugging into upper left going out down left channel to the next amp:









Hence the outer left Marshall was only plugged into upper left, looks like this Marshall was the last in the daisy chain.


Now take a look from the back, this photo looks very suspicous regarding slaving:



Pay special attention to the cable that goes into the left top cab.
Where does it come from? It looks like it doesn't come straight from the amp on top....... ?
Notice also some other devices right behind the stacks that cable seems to go to.

[vanhalen5150]

Tuff to tell. Ozzy's stylin' in the white pants though.

[Tone Slinger]

Imagine him with those pants on now.


Yeah, Rhoads had a huge tone, that I was very into at one point. Alot of tube purist type player's didnt like his tone that much. Regardless of his actual way of setting up his top's along with his cab's, I hear output tube distortion, along with a big dose of MXR Distortion + and a 10 band eq boost.

I really like alot of Rhoads tones on 'Diary', as well as alot of the live bootleg stuff.

I NEVER liked the sound on 'Blizzard', though the songs were great.

[Maverick]

Which speakers are in the cabs Fane,JBL, altec?

[SLP1959]

Altec 417-8H.

[leadguy]

From what I can make out (and it isn't easy) he seems to be daisy chaining 3 heads together which is all pretty standard for stadiums and outdoors.

If he's daisy chaining the 3 heads together (which it looks like) then how does slaving come into it.
3 Marshall heads can't be daisy chained to each other and slaved at the same time.

2 heads to slave with one being a power amp otherwise you hit all tonestack problems.

All someone can do is try slaving and see if it's what they are after tonewise.
If it is, then get on with playing.

The BS about Ed's VH1 tone that I've unfortunately read, depends on someones opinion about some tone in their head which is different to someone elses tone in their heads etc etc.

The secret EVH pickup thing on the net somewhere where the person writes it like they have found some tone secret of Ed's or something, what BS, it turns out to be a Duncan EVH78 and the C e r r e m resistor BS and picture comes from an old Usenet post from another "Ed's got a secret" over the top fan.

Slaving is just a amp with gain, bouncing around inside a power amp.
IMO Slaving can't get the edge and directness of the VH1 tone as slaving tends to smooth things out and sounds different to me and the Echoplex and the Variac and the Phase and Ed's speakers and the tubes and the 50 watt or 100 watt Plexi and the mic positions and the room acoustics and the reverb and the EQing and the final mastering are all more important IMO than a slaving setup.

There are no Ed early pictures showing slaving or big resistors or load boxes or whatever.

[SLP1959]

3 Marshall heads can't be daisy chained to each other and slaved at the same time.

Why not?
You can have 3 Marshalls daisy chained and slaved each with their own load and poweramp. In this case the poweramps doesn't necessarily needs to be Marshalls. Check the devices behind the stacks.

[Tone Slinger]

I have to agree with you here Leadguy (Though I love the whole 'reamping' idea) That tone Ed was getting on that first album had a more 'direct' thing to it. The oct. '77 Civic Center stuff has this tone (1st album) as well. I agree, the reampng stuff I've heard just has slight 'dampening' effect. I'm hearing a cranked 12 series head (a damn fine one too) with some great speaker's being variaced.

The metoamp clip of Mark (Rockstah) on youtube, demoing the 12 series head/4/12 greenbacks dimed on that 400 volt setting is just about it, as far a Ed's '77 tone is concerned.

[SLP1959]

3 Marshall heads can't be daisy chained to each other and slaved at the same time.

I just did with two chained heads!

btw I'm not saying that's going on here. I think a good possibility is that a fourth Marshall is there behind the stack (out of sight) that was amplified by the other three heads as seen in the pic which are daisy chained.

Randy used 4 Marshall heads in 1981:

[leadguy]

Why not?
You can have 3 Marshalls daisy chained and slaved each with their own load and poweramp. In this case the poweramps doesn't necessarily needs to be Marshalls. Check the devices behind the stacks.

It's hard to make anything out from the photos.
Just looks like 60s/70s/early 80s straight daisy chaining to me before some guitarists starting using slaving systems like the Bob Bradshaw slaving switching system in the mid 80s.

The instrument level output of one head with a load can be taken to 3 power amps.
Running 3 heads into 3 loads and then into 3 power amps in parallel is also possible but needs 2 more heads.

Ed said guitarists would come sniffing around at the clubs looking at his gear and there was nothing unusual to see and I suppose Rhoads was one of those guitarists.

If Ed had a load box around the back of his amps in the clubs, word of it would have got out and dudes in LA would have been slaving their asses off everywhere in 1976 or had big resistors hanging off their amps but slaving only happened in a big sort of way in the mid 80s. The slaving stuff about Ed is all from the mid 80s when Ed's Bradshaw slaving system was in guitar mags.

[SLP1959]

It's hard to make anything out from the photos.

True, that's why I asked in the first place.

but slaving only happened in a big sort of way in the mid 80s.

I'm not so sure about that.... Both Mark C. and C.e.r.r.e.m said Ed slaved his head. I can't imagine they confused the late seventies with the middle eighties when talking about 'the sound'. Ed's sound was very different in '85.
Didn't Allan Holdworth (hero of Ed...) slaved his tube amps already in the seventies?

Check this: Eruption 1978
This (to me) sounds more like a slaved Marshall then anything else. It's that typical 'hifi' effect one gets when slaving. People who tried themselves probably recognize it. I hear the same in Randy's live tones.
But again: nobody who wasn't there can say for sure.

[vanhalen5150]

Back when Ed smoked everyones ass! Hard to tell from the quality of the recording. Does have that slave thingy going on though. Maybe he just used it in certain places.

[Strat78]

Which speakers are in the cabs Fane,JBL, altec?

Saw Randy twice with Ozzy, the tone was more demonstrative of post VHI, and we now know where that was going. Anyway, yea, what's with the aluminum dust covers on all those cones? Is that why Randy's tone was so synthetic?

[leadguy]

Both Mark C. and C.e.r.r.e.m said Ed slaved his head. I can't imagine they confused the late seventies with the middle eighties when talking about 'the sound'. Ed's sound was very different in '85.

Yeah, well they might be good at amp or parts stuff but they also are quite capable of having their own theories and if those theories were verified then no one would ask things like, did Ed slave in the early days.

I've seen C e r r e m change his story at the Plexi Palace and then there is this post (he used to post on the old Usenet) that seems to be him (Christopher Michael, Chistopher M e r r e n, C.M.) getting all the H&H stuff mixed up with the early days.

I'm not even going to talk about Mark Cameron as I've already said all I have to say about his theories.

This (to me) sounds more like a slaved Marshall then anything else. It's that typical 'hifi' effect one gets when slaving. People who tried themselves probably recognize it. I hear the same in Randy's live tones.
But again: nobody who wasn't there can say for sure.

Well how do we verify slaving by this?

[SLP1959]

Well how do we verify slaving by this?

Building a timemachine?

Seriously: you and I both can't.
I use my ears and with the knowledge I have now I think he slaved his Marshall. Hence how 'conrolled' his sound always was, never any hauling/feedback when the guitar is supposed to be quiet which would be very hard to avoid a few meters away from a straight into cab Marshall on 10. (putting the pickups in a wax first only helps to a certain point, as well as tempering the volume a bit with a variac) Think practical. I don't believe in the 'magic' Marshall. The magic was in his hands and the way he hooked up things. I think he could get that sound out of any well tuned plexi.

btw: and even if we get verified he didn't slave I would still slave my 'magic' 1959 Marshall reissues!