Slaving a Plexi Project

[rockstah]

Hey Mark!!! Wassup!

Mark cameron told me about the Jose load box 2 years ago and he told me that the load box had to have a transformer or something in it to make it sound right. I also remember him telling me that if you didn't use the box that it would sound like total crap plugging one plexi into another lol
He even mentioned that in his original post when he first talked about it here and I have been wondering why no one has ever tried to re-create what he was talking about?. I mean people did try what he was talking about but they never built the load box. I know tha Rgalpin tried it but he was using an EQ to tame the level going into the other amp but that still wasn't what Mark was talking about. Im really not the handiest guy otherwise I would have done this already 2 years ago lol. I watched countless guys give the 2 amp thing a whirl but no one made the correct load box. I just sat there scratching my head wondering why lol This is the only reason why I asked you before as to why you modded the second amp is becuase I though you were going by what Mark said.
I think that you are scary close and Id love for you to pick Mark Camerons brain because id love to hear what he was talking about in person! george had it hooked up in the metro room a few years back and I was to busy screwing around at the show and never got to hear it!!

Mark showed me the load box at the Ny amp show 2 years ago and he also posted pictures of it.

All the best!!


Ralph

well that certanly would make a differnce on the amp1 line out into amp2 <---cause i know that sounds like total crap.

perhaps Mark would hook me up but i have always figured him to be just too busy.

[nhendrixsc]

Yes I would love to get a diagram of Mark Camerons Load box. I finally got yours working Mark (rackstah) and your right going troungh the tone stack and pre-amp does not give a very good tone. Of course my setup is not what it should be (2205 into a JCM 2000) both have pre-amps.
I would like to continue working on this until I get it right because, even though the tone I'm getting from slaving to amps right now is not the best I can hear and understand how this setup can be great! I wonder if feeding my #1 amp (jcm 2205) into a Power Amp (Hafler 1100) would be better. What do you think?
If anyone can get the diagram of Mark Camerons loadbox or lineout box please post it. Or maybe a thread link explaining it.
Thanks for all your help
Nathan

[leadguy]

Sounds very good. There is a clarity and headroom thing to it that reminds me of VH1 and I think you can only get that sound with 2 amps but they have to be setup the right way. It's interesting how you have the second amp setup.

[IloveMyMarshall]

Hey Mark!!! Wassup!

Mark cameron told me about the Jose load box 2 years ago and he told me that the load box had to have a transformer or something in it to make it sound right. I also remember him telling me that if you didn't use the box that it would sound like total crap plugging one plexi into another lol
He even mentioned that in his original post when he first talked about it here and I have been wondering why no one has ever tried to re-create what he was talking about?. I mean people did try what he was talking about but they never built the load box. I know tha Rgalpin tried it but he was using an EQ to tame the level going into the other amp but that still wasn't what Mark was talking about. Im really not the handiest guy otherwise I would have done this already 2 years ago lol. I watched countless guys give the 2 amp thing a whirl but no one made the correct load box. I just sat there scratching my head wondering why lol This is the only reason why I asked you before as to why you modded the second amp is becuase I though you were going by what Mark said.
I think that you are scary close and Id love for you to pick Mark Camerons brain because id love to hear what he was talking about in person! george had it hooked up in the metro room a few years back and I was to busy screwing around at the show and never got to hear it!!

Mark showed me the load box at the Ny amp show 2 years ago and he also posted pictures of it.

All the best!!


Ralph

well that certainly would make a difference on the amp1 line out into amp2 <---cause i know that sounds like total crap.

perhaps Mark would hook me up but i have always figured him to be just too busy.

Yea Mark I agree my friend and I do not know why we cant get a straight answer to this unsolved mystery! I called MarkC and spoke to him by the way really( super nice person beyond great human being), to see if I could get this solution to this issue, I'm sorry to say I failed.. That's the missing link to the equation. Here is the thread good luck, I hope this gets out so we can put a cap on that Jose load box for good!

I built mine inside the amp and to my ears it makes a difference! However, I still run that line to Boss ge7 eq to shape which I use a slight frown. But this is with a 2204 your specs from a previous post.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... 5&start=45" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[rgalpin]

not that i have heard yet. when u go through the front end of a stock plexi you lose all that headroom that u hear it eds sound. thats what we have been doing by adding a 330u cap to a stock plexi - trying to create that headroom - when you run in the front of another amp it doesn't have that quality that eds sound has - show me clip - lets talk about it. -


Mark

i was not using a plexi circuit as my 2nd amp.

i had the most success using a JTM45 type preamp section or a superbass circuit using 6L6 power tubes. not as much gain and high end added by those circuits as is with a plexi. and in the power amp position of the rig, these amps are run on about 1 or 1.5 with no attenuation. so it's pretty much loud-ass clean power.

so they were stock circuits but not PLEXI stock circuits. i've never tried the plexi as amp 2 - that i can recall.

i'll find some clips.

and don't get me wrong - your setup with amp 2 bypassing the pre amp sounds superb to my ears - and i'm gonna try it - i'm just saying that it's not the only way to get impressive results with 2 stock amps.

[Gainfreak]

Hey Mark!!! Wassup!

Mark cameron told me about the Jose load box 2 years ago and he told me that the load box had to have a transformer or something in it to make it sound right. I also remember him telling me that if you didn't use the box that it would sound like total crap plugging one plexi into another lol
He even mentioned that in his original post when he first talked about it here and I have been wondering why no one has ever tried to re-create what he was talking about?. I mean people did try what he was talking about but they never built the load box. I know tha Rgalpin tried it but he was using an EQ to tame the level going into the other amp but that still wasn't what Mark was talking about. Im really not the handiest guy otherwise I would have done this already 2 years ago lol. I watched countless guys give the 2 amp thing a whirl but no one made the correct load box. I just sat there scratching my head wondering why lol This is the only reason why I asked you before as to why you modded the second amp is becuase I though you were going by what Mark said.
I think that you are scary close and Id love for you to pick Mark Camerons brain because id love to hear what he was talking about in person! george had it hooked up in the metro room a few years back and I was to busy screwing around at the show and never got to hear it!!

Mark showed me the load box at the Ny amp show 2 years ago and he also posted pictures of it.

All the best!!


Ralph

well that certanly would make a differnce on the amp1 line out into amp2 <---cause i know that sounds like total crap.

perhaps Mark would hook me up but i have always figured him to be just too busy.

You are correct !! He has been really busy with his amp line! Im such a noob that I thought that he had spilled the beans about what was inside the load box but I guess I was wrong.
Maybe we can get him to chime in! Im going to hopefully see him in a few months and I'll ask him if he wants to share the info or not. I really thought that he has told everyone. Hey Mark, If you see this give me a call!!

~R~

[dnatronic]

Here's the missing ingredient on using the second amp. It must be a low gain plexi circuit - a la a JTM45; a higher gain preamp on the 2nd amp such as a 12000 series won't work. Use the Vol I input but use the lower one because you don't want to distort the 2nd amp. Then you need to do "impedance matching" from the line out of the first amp to the input of the 2nd plexi - this is the key and is the function of the transformer in the Jose load box. It matches a line output impedance to the guitar input impedance. If you just stick a standard line out signal directly into a guitar amp input it won't sound exactly right, which many have tried with no luck. By using the preamp section of the second plexi, you get the benefit of the tone stack on the second amp. Jose was a genius.

[IloveMyMarshall]

Here's the missing ingredient on using the second amp. It must be a low gain plexi circuit - a la a JTM45; a higher gain preamp on the 2nd amp such as a 12000 series won't work. Use the Vol I input but use the lower one because you don't want to distort the 2nd amp. Then you need to do "impedance matching" from the line out of the first amp to the input of the 2nd plexi - this is the key and is the function of the transformer in the Jose load box. It matches a line output impedance to the guitar input impedance. If you just stick a standard line out signal directly into a guitar amp input it won't sound exactly right, which many have tried with no luck. By using the preamp section of the second plexi, you get the benefit of the tone stack on the second amp. Jose was a genius.

Dave(Racksystems) stated its a 600 ohm to 10k tranny, someone draw her up. I sure would if I knew how!

[45auto]

thanks DNA, i thought this had been covered? i'm hardly the guy to clarify this, but amp two is "expecting" a guitar level/impedance signal, not a line level/impedance signal. the transformer would fix this.

http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php ... a&start=60" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[psychodave]

Sounds great. I agree that slaving one amp into another sounds like crap. In some of my you tube clips I use a Suhr ISO box to get a line level and feed the effects and poweramp. The headroom is what make the tone.

[rockstah]

talking about this? http://suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx#lineOut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[psychodave]

[quote="rockstah"]talking about this? http://suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx#lineOut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]

Yes. I opened it up and there was some stuff inside I never saw before...

It works great though.

[rockstah]

did it have a transformer inside it?

[psychodave]

[quote="rockstah"]did it have a transformer inside it?[/quote]

I will post a quick pic....

While I do that... I have a JCM800 (2204) and I removed the PPIV master but, I didnt have a 1 meg pot for the Master volume, so I used a 500k pot that I scratched the carbon track to make it 800k. How much will this effect the sound?

[rgalpin]

not that i have heard yet. when u go through the front end of a stock plexi you lose all that headroom that u hear it eds sound. thats what we have been doing by adding a 330u cap to a stock plexi - trying to create that headroom - when you run in the front of another amp it doesn't have that quality that eds sound has - show me clip - lets talk about it.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5609241" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

i used a stomp box Boss EQ in between the 2 amps. plexi ->EQ-> JTM.

does running the signal through a stomp box EQ have the same effect as far as impedance matching goes?
does the stomp box act as a converter of sorts?