Variac a Super Lead instead of attenuating

[mr.twistyneck]

Agree about the touchiness. There are so many different tweak points in this setup. Okay, so I expanded testing a bit -

Took the setup from yesterday (dimed SL on 60v with MXR 6BEQ & BOOST on front, + Phase90/Flanger/DDL as needed) and did the following:

Added Hot Plate between 60VSL Head and 4x12 #1. Set Hot Plate to 0db (no load).

Set up 1970 Super Trem going directly to 4x12 #2. Set all controls to zero, except Bass on 10, and Ch1 up a bit, and since this ST has a MV, backed the MV off just a hair. Ran line out from Hot Plate to Ch1 input on ST.

I'll post the YT link here in a sec. I think I have some tweaking to do. The nice dark 60v 4x12 gets awfully trebly thru the Super Trem's front end (this is no surprise to me). Tweaking the 6BEQ or Boost pedal, or the controls on the 60VSL is kind of like driving a battleship - it's like you make an adjustment, and you don't really get immediate gratification.

One thing, that I can safely say, and I will swear on a stack of mustards, is that the behavior of this rig is unlike anything I have every played through. you can play rhythm, and when you switch to lead, there's no loss of oomph. it is...auto-limiting? compressing? Just THIS particular characteristic is VERY interesting. Sound starts ~1:44 Excuse potato cell phone quality.

okay, here we go

[rgalpin]

Makes me want to put a 57 in the mathematical center of one of the cones and enjoy the cornucopia of blossoming tone waves. That is wild sounding.

[mr.twistyneck]

Makes me want to put a 57 in the mathematical center of one of the cones and enjoy the cornucopia of blossoming tone waves. That is wild sounding.

Yes Sir! I think this might be closer to "what was in the room" rather than "what we heard on the record". I imagine if it was properly recorded, then had some studio yum-yums applied, then I might be closer to the latter.

[dirtycooter]

It doesn't sound bad. Actually pretty damn good! But it seemed to have lost some ferrociousness in the ripping exploding gain meltdown dept. Or was it the phone mic in a odd position? Not getting the sizzle fo shizzle on top here.
What do you get on the first vid set-up with the micro amp down or off? That was like an over abundance of gain though it was juicier sounding to my ear. I liked it better but confused as I know how phone mics can do all sorts of weird stuff when just even angled different.
I am in absolute love with the whole variac low volume idea vs a tone f'n attenuator.

[mr.twistyneck]

Cell phone was about 15 feet away on 2nd vid, vs about 3 ft away on 1st vid. Need to set up an sm57.

[mr.twistyneck]

Further testing today - no YT vid because of potato cell phone mic quality.

I tried something different - ran the line out of the Hot Plate to CH TWO input of the slave head (1970 Super Trem). In this case, I turned the MV all the way up, and due to CH TWO not being so hot, it was sort of a muffled sound with Pres, Mid, Treb all the way down and Bass all the way up. Turns out, if you use CH TWO, your tone controls become much more useful, so you can back down on the bass, and then blend in the pres/mid/treb to really dial in the louder cabinet.

So, Dirtycooter, the hair you were expecting? Yes, it is there. Also, because the slave portion is more controllable tone-wise, you can actually play with just the 6bandEQ on, and forgo the MXR Boost. My guilty pleasure is that I like that extra hair at least for now, so I prefer it on. I could definitely see some players who are used to playing with slightly less grit being okay with just the 6bandEQ.

In My Humble Opinion:
This setup is nuts. playing through VH1 tunes, I notice things "working", where previous setups had fallen short.
Across the board - the phase 90, flanger, and echo are acting as desired, rather than being just "not quite there". The overall compression/limiting that I think is going on is unlike anything I've ever played through.
1. RWTD - the chords just BLARING - no prob. Cleanup with vol rollback - no prob. no loss of volume when soloing - no prob.
2. ERUPTION - the dive bombs seem to behave more like what's on the iso tracks we see out on the web. The notes jump out more.
3. YRGM - the harmonic chirps on the walk downs during the first verse seem to match more what's on the record. At the end of the solo, there is no shortage of gain, so the stutter switch effect works great.
4. ATBL - Although I don't have an Echoplex, and I chose not to bust out the Univox EC80, the delay "pings" on the intro and A-G chords are spot on.
5. ITO - the C and D chords blare out, just like the behavior in RWTD. the harmonics blare too.
6. OF - yep, just sounds great.

I didn't do any other VH1 stuff today, although the day is young. LOL. Really, I'm just staring at this rig, wondering "where have you been all my life?"

[rgorke]

Are you sure your hotplate is on "load" it looked to be the complete opposite. Meaning, is the first amp going into the cabinet and you are just using the hotplate for the line out?

I'm confused.

[mr.twistyneck]

Apologies, I meant to say the Hot Plate is on zero, not load. The HP serves no use in this application, other than to provide a line out. No need to attenuate the head running at 60v.

Edit: a word

[dirtycooter]

Makes sense what you are saying-so both cabs are actually running-one variaced off the mian head and the other a reamped version of this but louder in its own cab as its reamped and totally scaleable just on that side.
But aren't you essentially just "daisey chaining" the original head here like Hendrix and a bunch of others used to do??
Why would it add anything to the sound here?? If both heads are coming out of their own cabs... then it is kinda a mix of two methods really.
It would be head variaced to its own cab like the first vid
then this 2nd vid setup is a variaced head to its own cab but also slaved to a second head feeding its own cab expanding on the original vid essentially.
Its like a simulataneous mix of variaced single cab volume control and then slaving like jnew together at the same time.

What if.... the hotplate was set to actual "load" with the first head variaced down to oblivion THEN reamped out of a single 4x12? Whats that sound like??

[mr.twistyneck]

But aren't you essentially just "daisey chaining" the original head here like Hendrix and a bunch of others used to do??

Unsure. I thought Hendrix just daisy chained the input of his main head to each subsequent head. That's not what is being done here.

Why would it add anything to the sound here??

The 2nd head is not reamping the output of my guitar, like if I ran my guitar to a splitter and Y'd off to two heads. The 2nd head's purpose is to provide volume.
1st head: running on 60 volts, gets initial tone. But can't get louder than bedroom level.
2nd head: running on wall voltage, reamping the line out signal of what the 1st head is pumping out.

If I were doing a wet dry rig like I used to do it, I would run the line out signal to a straight power amp feeding a separate cab. But, I figured that's not what Ed initially did. If he used the 1st head like a distortion box, he could feed the signal to a 2nd head, where even if he went in through the front end, it would run another 4x12 or two at higher volume, with a tone stack to tweak sound to boot. Then, if he needed to run a 3rd stack, he could daisy chain from the 2nd stack.

What if.... the hotplate was set to actual load?

Great question. I think all that did was cut out the sound coming from cab 1. I tried it for maybe a second or two, but left the 1st head un-hotplate-attenuated, as all I really cared about doing was getting that line out to something that could be louder, even if it meant running it through the front end of another guitar amp rather than a straight up power amp.

My theory is this might have been the club setup. I just don't know how he would have gotten a line out from his ultra-variac'ed head to his slave heads. But it also makes me go "Hmmmmm" because later on he got that Palmer (?) speaker emulator, that fed H&H power amps.... and poof goes first album tone. I need to try the line out on my Weber Mass vs the Hot Plate, and also try a power amp in place of head two. And get a semi-real mic setup. The things ya do to chase a tone.... LOL

Oh, also, you know the pics of the 6 band EQ hanging in front of the stack of Marshall's from the Japan shows circa 1978 (I think)? What if you had to stick an EQ in the line out chain for tonal reasons? And in regards to the GE-10, what if it was tried because it had more control on frequencies? More stuff to try...

[dirtycooter]

Well thanks you two
I just order'itized me a dag gum variac

That true VH form SAGGY BAGGY TRANNY never jumped out so plainly until one brave soul ventured below 90v.
While I don't have THE tranny spec you two have I am fearless as if I do blow up my custom merc that vic put in my peacemaker then I will have an excuse to buy another tranny

[rgalpin]

ran my amp variac'd to 60V last night for an hour and 15 min set. worked great - when the set was over went over and put my hand on the head... cool as a cucumber. not even a warm draft coming up through openings. i didn't run it dimed though - i needed a little more control so i ran it at about 7 and presence on 5 to keep it toward normalness - not exactly a vh type gig. but pretty happy with the performance of the amp and tone - plus, something NEW. always more fun when trying something new.

good work on the slaving tests twisty, can't wait to hear the results...

[Jeremy1283]

ran my amp variac'd to 60V last night for an hour and 15 min set. worked great - when the set was over went over and put my hand on the head... cool as a cucumber. not even a warm draft coming up through openings. i didn't run it dimed though - i needed a little more control so i ran it at about 7 and presence on 5 to keep it toward normalness - not exactly a vh type gig. but pretty happy with the performance of the amp and tone - plus, something NEW. always more fun when trying something new.

good work on the slaving tests twisty, can't wait to hear the results…

this is awesome news! Thanks for sharing

[dirtycooter]

You guys biasing up at wall voltage and dropping? or biasing at 90v then dropping??
Still pondering Friedman's recollection of both Eds heads having the bias pot maxed out when he got into them.
I guess at this low voltage one would be able to just crank the bias and still be in a safe zone here for the most part? Would it not have "enough swing" that low of voltage to even get close to max dissipation?

And yes! good news on the heat. That is electronics 101-HEAT IS BAD-COOL IS GOOD Might explain how Ed is one of the few to have dragged the same amp around as long as he has without it really biting the weenie all these years.

[jnew]

I've thought a lot about this. I bias my stuff at 90VAC and run the amp at 90. Going lower on voltage without biasing will yield a colder bias (I think it's colder because the mA's should got higher) but there's no denying the tone these guys are getting.