variac tests 02

[awangotango]

A convenient amp would have all the tubes with adjustable bias pots

here's a good summary of the plexi circuit and then how the cascade was added

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-VsonlY ... g&index=57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU69O839 ... 1PgH8bUkzg

[Strat78]

this is the compare to benchmark after i tuned to VH tuning...

That was a really nice clip! We've got to keep exploring this!

[Jeremy1283]

ok - this is with the variac dial saying 90V - still not near club level - like a comfortable listening level in the room - sooprising.

strat78 - this is with the 6-band mxr in a smile curve - again sooprising! i never would have thought it.

mic'd a little closer - like a lot closer - mic almost touching the grill cloth.

here's what's REALLY sooprising - NO EQ in post. none. this is exactly what's coming out of the amp.

i put all 4 tubes in. it's not dimed anymore -
vol 6
treble 5
mid 10
bass 10
pres 3

what do you think?

if you like it - i have more!haha! i love playing it - it - you can't stop playing it b/c it feels so so good.

What are the speakers being used on this clip rob?

[rgalpin]

i don't remember. either Weber MyTone12 (Stan Spec) w/ Pre Rola Treatment or V30. I have a cab that is loaded with both - and I have lost track of which is which. i strongly lean towards the StanSpec though.

AWANGOTANGO - always cool to hear from you. i need to learn how to control the plate voltages and will be rebuilding this amp this winter - and i will try your approach of "tweak with it dimed" - that will be a fun new approach - and one that i have not really tried - not totally. making a self imposed rule of leaving all knobs on 10 will force me to learn where different aspects af the tone are coming from based on voltages and component choices. cool project. thanks for the inspiration to try it.

[rgalpin]

went back and checked out these clips again, this is a really great thread on using the variac! After hearing the comparisons, it sounds like the only difference in yours and the VH tone is perhaps two cents on the 12301 bass knob. I though it was the opposite at first but now hearing with fresh ears, it seems pretty clear. Thanks for doing the leg work here, THATS what Metro is all about.

strat78 - you said: "it sounds like the only difference in yours and the VH tone is perhaps two cents on the 12301 bass knob."

I know what you are saying about the bass being different. and that bass response and tightness is what creates the "tight tennis racket bounce" that i miss - and that i have never achieved. you know maybe it's the SOURCE - my guitar just might not be sending out that tight low end - and you can't create it out of nothing! that bass is either there or it's not. and if it's NOT, then no amount of increasing the bass knob will ever "create it" - i think that's where I am with this now... that tight bass response is going to be needed to give it the back bone that i am missing - it could also be a voltage thing as hinted at by awangotango - probably a combination of the two - plus 6 or 700 hundred other things! but yeah!! this is worth exploring...

[Tone Slinger]

Rob, just build a new strat. Get a nice ash body (4 to no more than 5lb body),get either a Callaham vintage 6 screw or a Fender vintage reissue tremolo bridge. The neck needs to be a single acting truss rod,like a Warmoth 'vintage/Modern'. I've tracked a little with one of my strats that has a floyd and has the Warmoth 'Pro Construction' neck, and it just DOESNT have that 'boingy' propulsive 'Tennis Racket' thing your talking about. The Floyd Bridge destroys that aspect, imo, and the double expanding , modern style truss rod will also limit that as well.

Be aware of lesser 'vintage style' 6 screw tremolo's, like Gotoh (the plate and saddles are ok, but the block is too soft ofa metal.....loses sustain and articulation).

[Strat78]

Yes, I think TS is pointing in the right direction. We have the amp/cab portion of the equation down pretty good, the rest is how it all comes together. Rob, just build a new amp for the fun of it. A pure 12xxx with absolutely no bells or whistles.

[Jeremy1283]

Heck yea guys. I agree and its my next thing to do!

[Strat78]

It's great to just have a bunch of strat parts lying around to work from. Here is my "Holdsworth" strat that I cobbled together last week. It's got a Warmoth super wide neck (I added the VHI headstock and laminated it with mango wood), a Kne basswood body and of course the Callaham bridge. Old Mighty Mite pups. Having a tone knob is pretty cool too, it dials in a little woodiness ever so slightly. Got the Inca Silver paint from Reranch. Oops, what's this got to do with a variac.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/120665708 ... 812645477/

[Jeremy1283]

It's great to just have a bunch of strat parts lying around to work from. Here is my "Holdsworth" strat that I cobbled together last week. It's got a Warmoth super wide neck (I added the VHI headstock and laminated it with mango wood), a Kne basswood body and of course the Callaham bridge. Old Mighty Mite pups. Having a tone knob is pretty cool too, it dials in a little woodiness ever so slightly. Got the Inca Silver paint from Reranch. Oops, what's this got to do with a variac.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/120665708 ... 812645477/

Phil! I love it! The headstock is badass looking man.. Love these inspiring photos to help me stay motivated.

[awangotango]

the inspiration for tweeking with it dimed came after I heard the amp DaveF dialed in for me. It behaved so well dimed that my original and lasting thought has always been, that he must have dimed it and then he gets in there with an iron and swaps out a half dozen parts until the magic happens. It probably takes him a couple hours but for the laymen it could take considerably longer, only because we don't know exactly what parts do what and do not have the experience from working on many marshalls. But back when i was into eddie, it didn't take me too long. By a couple's weeks time I had an amp real similar to the one he modded. And it behaved different than all my other superleads. I think only on out of a 100 come from the factory in that accidental state of being able to stay together while dimed. I went even further and applied the idea to pulling tubes and tweeked after I had commited to that. Then by the time I was done, everything was dialed in with 2 pulled and the end tone was not a sacrifice in any way. In fact, it may even make it easier to hold things together when dimed, and I often wonder if ed had recorded anything with that setup, because it sure sounded like it. But that is a more radical approach then just doing part A and taking the controls out of the equation before tweeking. I have some other tips that I wrote down that revolved around some odd resistor values to get the tube bias right for the tubes I had committed to, which is also something that I believe needs to be decided pre tweeking to as much a degree as possible because when you're in there fine tuning tube bias, it is very tube dependent and will change if swapped out. SO if you are going to commit to really dedicating an amp to get eddies dimes sound, I would recommend starting with what was likely his pre tube configuration and although it's up for debate, a sylvania in 1, a mullard in two and an amperex or telefunken in 3 was where I settled (the telefunken in 3 is for fair warning and women, the amperex if you prefer 1984 and II. emails with dave also indicated that tube choice is key

[Jeremy1283]

the inspiration for tweeking with it dimed came after I heard the amp DaveF dialed in for me. It behaved so well dimed that my original and lasting thought has always been, that he must have dimed it and then he gets in there with an iron and swaps out a half dozen parts until the magic happens. It probably takes him a couple hours but for the laymen it could take considerably longer, only because we don't know exactly what parts do what and do not have the experience from working on many marshalls. But back when i was into eddie, it didn't take me too long. By a couple's weeks time I had an amp real similar to the one he modded. And it behaved different than all my other superleads. I think only on out of a 100 come from the factory in that accidental state of being able to stay together while dimed. I went even further and applied the idea to pulling tubes and tweeked after I had commited to that. Then by the time I was done, everything was dialed in with 2 pulled and the end tone was not a sacrifice in any way. In fact, it may even make it easier to hold things together when dimed, and I often wonder if ed had recorded anything with that setup, because it sure sounded like it. But that is a more radical approach then just doing part A and taking the controls out of the equation before tweeking. I have some other tips that I wrote down that revolved around some odd resistor values to get the tube bias right for the tubes I had committed to, which is also something that I believe needs to be decided pre tweeking to as much a degree as possible because when you're in there fine tuning tube bias, it is very tube dependent and will change if swapped out. SO if you are going to commit to really dedicating an amp to get eddies dimes sound, I would recommend starting with what was likely his pre tube configuration and although it's up for debate, a sylvania in 1, a mullard in two and an amperex or telefunken in 3 was where I settled (the telefunken in 3 is for fair warning and women, the amperex if you prefer 1984 and II. emails with dave also indicated that tube choice is key

Do you have any sound clips?

[Strat78]

Honestly, this whole diming thing is a myth and it means nothing. Even Edward said he likes to bring the amp to the brink then dial it back a bit, but again that is relative. Some of the old Marshalls potentiometers measured high and other than options of a few oddball parts we know exactly what to do when building an EVH 12301 (12xxx) style amp. It still would be nice if the old PT's could be duplicated. There is no mystery or chosen few who are privy to sacred text of VH tone, we are way beyond that here, that is as long as builders hang out here and share the good ol' specifics.

[Jeremy1283]

Honestly, this whole diming thing is a myth and it means nothing. Even Edward said he likes to bring the amp to the brink then dial it back a bit, but again that is relative. Some of the old Marshalls potentiometers measured high and other than options of a few oddball parts we know exactly what to do when building an EVH 12301 (12xxx) style amp. It still would be nice if the old PT's could be duplicated. There is no mystery or chosen few who are privy to sacred text of VH tone, we are way beyond that here, that is as long as builders hang out here and share the good ol' specifics.

That makes complete sense phil! Thank you... I never thought about the pots measuring high. I pretty much feel we are nailing evh tone. IMO

[Tone Slinger]

Phil, damn SWEET lookin' strat man The Inca Silver is a nice color.....looks real good with the fretboard wood Now I'm thinking beyond my normal White or Black or bare/clear coat concerning strat builds. I'm thinking metallic blue or purple on my next guitar build