Some speaker comparisons

[awangotango]

H-30's (100dbspl) sounding louder than M20's (97dbspl)? Eddie using 20W celestions? Strange findings, but welcome aboard..... How would VH get such cut, upper mids and aggression out of 20watters which are a pretty even responsed speaker? It's possible I suppose, I still hear much more VH in 25 W prerolas, and I've owned a heritage 20W.

[RACKDOCTOR]

I have a theory. I feel that Edward used 25 watt Blackbacks in his cabs. A majority of cabs Ed used in photos were all late seveties cabs with checkerboard or black grill. They came stock with Blackbacks. There also was not a huge supply of pre rola Greenbacks at the time. They were mostly in England in pre 1970's cabs. I can't see Ed changing out all his speakers for greenbacks. The other conclusion I came to is that the back pannel of the cab must have been particle board. Most all the Marshall cabs from 73 on were particleboard backed instead of plywood. It changes the bottom end and mids of the cab drastically. Just a theory.

http://www.amp-restoration.com/cabdata/cabdata.html

[JimiJames]

WHATTA SHOT !


Jimmie K.

[cary chilton]

Hello, I am new. I love this thread, great timing for me and my quest!
I currently have Eminence wizards and Red Fangs, and I like them a lot. Then I started thinking about Celestion when I heard of the heritage series. After READING a lot here, I think heritage series is nice, but I wish there was a HERITAGE 25 watter as well.... sigh... THe pre rola green back 25 w sounds sweet but maybe very pricy? The blackbacks -never heard of before this cool thread- sound pretty interesting, too.
Also, I checked out the scumback speakers, and listen and I like them!
The scumback sound authentic! The H75 ( 30 w) plexi clip even has a bit of the Hendrix sound on the beginning of the second half, at least I hear it!
So what IS the early EVH VH I recipe?? a quad scumback M75, or a quad blackbacks, Quad heritage g12m or g12h or a quad pre rola 25w?
OR is it BEST to mix them up? AND should all speakers be 20-25 watt?? Would a 30watt green back or heritage or blackback be nasty?

thanks

[gnugear]

Well, I spent another weekend of insanity swapping speakers in and out of different cabs. One thing I noticed is that the basketweave grill plays a huge role in the oveall tone. I thought the Heritage G12Ms sounded pretty good through my '81 with basketweave, but horrible through my '76 checkerboard. They finally found a home in my '70 basketweave. Likewise, the blackbacks were kind of trebley through the '76 checkerboard, but was really nice through the '81 with basketweave.

The end result was that the blackbacks are now one of my favorites ... although I still hear more upper mids than the real greenbacks or Heritage speakers which have more low mids.

How do you know that it's the cloth that's making the difference? and not the cab itself? The 70, 76 and 81 cabs are different, regardless of the cloth. The only way you could narrow it down would be to switch the baffles/cloth to each cab and still see if things sound as you found before. If so, it was the cab making the difference, if not, it's the cloth. My bet is on the cab itself as being a much bigger factor. Am I missing something?

Well, I overhauled my '81 cab and put metal handles on it as well as the basketweave. The only difference is the particle back vs. the ply back. I'm attributing the difference in tone to the speakers because I can hear the basic "sound" of the speaker as it changes from cab to cab. Those blackbacks went from a '68 basketweave to the '76 checkerboard, to the '81 JCM800 with basketweave (all straights). You get a pretty good sense for what the sonic signature of the speaker is and definitely know that the high end smoothness was do to the grill cloth and not the cab construction.

[cary chilton]

good info!

[Scumback Speakers]

In my experience, the thickness of the grill cloth does play a factor in the treble response. The thicker, the smoother the tone, it seems.

From smoothest to harshest I found the following:

Basketweave/Salt & Pepper cloth
BluesBreaker (reissue) cloth
Checkerboard (small or large check) cloth
Black (JCM 800/900) cloth

I use only the BW or BB cloth for this reason.

[yngwie308]

+++1,Yes I always prefered the sound of the earlier basketweave/salt and pepper,they are smoother sounding,I think I posted on this before.
I was fortunate to grow up in that era of cabs,and thought checkerboard and more so black,were so more unpeasant sounding.
Fave has always been pre-Rola 30H with Pulsonic lead cone (more numbers).
Thanks for all your great research at Southbay,a large component of the Marshall tone,is obviously the speakers and the cab,so right on!
Regards,
Yngwie308