variac tests 02

[rgalpin]

ok - these are slaved with the 47k in the tone stack.

Dimarzio SD > mxr 6 band boosted into the stratosphere smile > ep-pre @ 1:00 > SL variac'd into oblivion > weber mass150 dummy load out > presonus MP20 with IDSS cranked to 100% > Tech 21 Power Engine 300 > weber pre-rola dope, stan spec.

so much for keeping it simple!

[JimiJames]

Thanks for trying that swap and reporting back. Appreciate it !

In these clips it added too much high freq to that recipe. It did that pinched thing you mentioned,
with something good in the "bite" dept. when picked; but took away and sacrificed giving something of a howl and added in a somewhat different direction.... Unless the 330 has something to do with adjusting the howl to more of
a musical whistle (like a pinched harmonic).
What do you have there before the tone stack in V1b .0022 or .022

There's some thoomp I hear in the last post you did (variac-slave-tests-01.mp3) compared the the one before it (variac-compare-to-bench-mark-moved-mic.mp3). Was that done with the pedal ? Is variac-slave-tests-01.mp3 with the 47k too ?


Awesome R&D, BTW.

[jnew]

Hmm. When I saw the photo of the smile patten of the 6 band, I was thinking "how the hell"? Then I caught up to the part where you had to change the settings of the tone controls on the amp. That soon made more sense to me but, as good and as close as that sounds, there seems to be something missing about how the amp "gives it up" when those controls are domed. Just my opinion of course. Your playing makes me very gell-us.

[rgalpin]

Thanks for trying that swap and reporting back. Appreciate it !

In these clips it added too much high freq to that recipe. It did that pinched thing you mentioned,
with something good in the "bite" dept. when picked; but took away and sacrificed giving something of a howl and added in a somewhat different direction.... Unless the 330 has something to do with adjusting the howl to more of
a musical whistle (like a pinched harmonic).
What do you have there before the tone stack in V1b .0022 or .022

There's some thoomp I hear in the last post you did (variac-slave-tests-01.mp3) compared the the one before it (variac-compare-to-bench-mark-moved-mic.mp3). Was that done with the pedal ? Is variac-slave-tests-01.mp3 with the 47k too ?


Awesome R&D, BTW.

i hear it the exact same way!! weird isn't it. i have 0022 on v1b and 330/1K on v2a.

variac-slave-tests-01.mp3 (meanstreet comparison) - does not have 47k. i put the 56k back in after making the clips with all the other riffs. i posted the clips out of order. wnated to post something other than meanstreet to demo the variac-slave setup in full, not just meanstreet.

and yes, the slave setup rendered the THOOMP. what i hear as sort of a high-fidelity thing that happens when you slave - i guess technically, you would call it "extended freq response" or something along those lines.

[rgalpin]

EPILOGUE

Here's the same amp and setup with NO VARIAC - just for comparison. one is eq'd in post the other is just straight w no post production eq.

[rgalpin]

EPILOGUE

Here's the same amp and setup with NO VARIAC - just for comparison. one is eq'd in post the other is just straight w no post production eq.

The setup is ANEMIC by comparison to what you hear on the album. Like with my amp, the water is running out of the hose. With ed's amp it's like putting your thumb over the hose opening and now you have water blasting out with force. WHAT IS IT?

To my ear "the voice" is close. But the delivery of that voice is anemic.

[jerrydyer]

this is some really helpful stuff. thanks for the clips too.

[jerrydyer]

rgalpin, on the one that says no variac but attenuated to bedroom levels, is that ppimv or ?

[rgalpin]

rgalpin, on the one that says no variac but attenuated to bedroom levels, is that ppimv or ?

no - it's just a 1959. but i'm pushing it very hard with an mxr 6band - most of the faders almost maxed out. then i took the presence and treble and ran them on like 2 or even 0 i think on the presence. with those on 10 it would be a hissing mess!

[jof006]

so... what is THE AIR in an amp? what is the PUSH? that's where we need to tweak for an increase

i fear the answer to my question is that THE AIR/PUSH in the amp is THE VOLTAGE. if so, it's going to be hard to find another way to fill up the balloon... .

I would be more inclined to think CURRENT.
Perhaps the heaters need to be controlled separately from the B+ and the heater voltage raised a bit?
But before messing with that, how about playing with the filter caps? Maybe you've reduced them in the past? Try different values there - quite easy to try out.

[rgalpin]

with regard to the caps i went through a mad scientist phase testing filter cap values and making comparison clips (the results are posted in my soundclick pages and labeled as such) and at that time i was only listening for changes in color and harmonic content, bloom sort of stuff - i think i found the most interesting results in that sense using 32s everywhere.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... dID=743925" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

but with your idea, i will go back and check out the PUSH FACTOR in those comparison clips and see. that would be a nice find! gotta pump up that flat tire.

[rgalpin]

I would be more inclined to think CURRENT.

How and where do you measure the current? I know that's probably a beginner idiot question. But I learn in a very recursive process where I barely learn how half of something works and then jump in and start messing with it and next thing you know i'm getting results without BASIC understanding of building blocks. So, who cares right? But I thought I'd give a little explanation as to why someone who has been on this board as long as I have might have some gaping holes in my understanding of whazzz goin' on in this here world. So anyway - yeah - How and where do you measure the current? Then part 2 how do you affect it in order to observe sonic changes at higher and lower current? Dad, what's current? Mom, what's a bank for?

[jof006]

Bear in mind I'm just guessing and trying to help. I was hoping someone with more knowledge and experience would chip in to confirm or deny.

How and where do you measure the current?

You don't need to measure it. I'm thinking about the instantaneous current required when you play something, not the quiescent current (when you're drinking a beer).
When I read your water and air analogies, they made me think of the filter caps - they are reservoirs of charge/current.
And at these lower voltages they hold less charge (the reservoir is a bit emptier - less "pressure").
This probably leads to more sag and bloom and slow response (is this what you're getting?). A higher value mains cap should give a stiffer, faster response.
But then the tone may suffer.
If you did your filter cap tests at normal mains voltage, you may find different results when variac'd down.
Try the same filter cap values as Ed used (whatever that was - stock?) and let us know how that goes.

BTW, your amp sounds great to me.

[rgalpin]

interesting - definitely makes me want to check out some higher filter values. it also makes me think about just trying a little bit of cranking the voltage above 110/120 just to see if i hear the "thing" i am talking about happen. haha... wonder what ELSE might happen.

also - makes me wonder if what i am describing as "flat air" is what others call "slow response." maybe i am just listening for a faster response pushing back at me as i play. again, the THUMB on the end of the hose thing...

BTW, your amp sounds great to me.

Thanks! It does to me too - until I hear it right next to those VH album tones - that's when i hear the weakness...

[rgalpin]

Bear in mind I'm just guessing and trying to help. I was hoping someone with more knowledge and experience would chip in to confirm or deny.

How and where do you measure the current?

You don't need to measure it. I'm thinking about the instantaneous current required when you play something, not the quiescent current (when you're drinking a beer).
When I read your water and air analogies, they made me think of the filter caps - they are reservoirs of charge/current.
And at these lower voltages they hold less charge (the reservoir is a bit emptier - less "pressure").
This probably leads to more sag and bloom and slow response (is this what you're getting?). A higher value mains cap should give a stiffer, faster response.
But then the tone may suffer.
If you did your filter cap tests at normal mains voltage, you may find different results when variac'd down.
Try the same filter cap values as Ed used (whatever that was - stock?) and let us know how that goes.

BTW, your amp sounds great to me.

This is an awesome post right here jof006. filter caps with big fast power keeping the tennis racket tight. this is where the study and research must resume...