EVH Tone - Pickup Roundup

[leadguy]

Ceramic in the Strat and Super 70 in the Destroyer according to my ears, just like the 1977 Ed club photos show.

VH1 was recorded in between club dates in late 1977 probably around September from what Ed has said about a Whiskey gig coming up at the weekend just after he recorded Eruption.

I also think the Phase and the FET preamp in the Echoplex and the Echoplex delay as well and maybe the EQ and his amp and variac are also important in his early tone.

Ed to me was a DIY guy who just had a good ear for gear and at that time there was good analog gear around and if someone had the ear to combine stuff that worked, it would sound good.

If Ed wasn't a DIY guy and knew about amps, he could have just done a amp mod that drops the supply voltage and ditched the Variac or Jose or Rudy could have done it but they didn't and Ed just used the Variac DIY style.

I think Ed's early gear is just basically stock sometimes cheap stuff that happened to combine well for him.

I've been trying to find a 70s pedal that used a FET preamp in bypass from the schematics but I can't seem to find one so Ed just lucked out with the FET Echoplex preamp thing and how it combined with the Phase and pickups and amp etc etc.

After VH1 he started playing around with other gear like PAF's and custom made pickups with Duncan and Floyds with different pickups and slaving amp rigs with Bradshaw etc etc and ended up with Wolfgangs and a Soldano like amp design.

Notice that Ed never really did much at all in the later changes, he had tech people to do it, that wanted to work with him but in the early days he didn't and just basically combined stock gear.
If he had techs helping him out in the early days then who knows what he would have been playing on VH1 instead of having to rely on common stock gear.
I don't think Jose was a rock band tech, he was working as more of a local tube repair guy who was getting ready for retirement.
Something like the Bradshaw switching/slaving stadium rig is not something that Jose would specialize in.
Ed threw him some master volume mod business but that's about as far as he went IMO.

[StuntDouble]

I think that the pu in Ed's late '77-'78 era b&w Franky wasnt as close to the bridge as whats in that Honey colored guitar. I think that the angle doesnt neccisarilly accentuates the low strings to have more bite and the hi ones less bite. Both poles still pick up vibration. I think it simply gets more 'focus' when done like this, though to some extent the closer pole piece would have more 'say', so , yeah lower strings might have a little more sizzle.

I think Ed's pick up looked a bit further from the bridge in '77-'78. The R.B and W era floyd version I'm not sure about. Ed probably changed the pu position.

Ed seemed to be able to clean his sound up VERY well by rolling back his guitars volume. Ceramic magnets seem to get muddy when doing this. Does the mm's clean up well ?

You know, that was my initial impression too, and I'm trying to get some good pics of the old B&W Frankie to make sure...but, if you look at the way the Wilkinson is laid out witht the posts in front of the E strings, it makes it look closer to the bridge pup than it really is. It's hard to gauge distances from old photos, but I think if it needs to go further towards the neck, it shouldn't be by much...thoughts anyone? Do any of you guys have good pics that show the distance and angle in the B&W Frankie from the bridge to the pup? I guess this is a moot point anyways since I'm going to just adjust it by how it sounds once I get it together.

[Tone Slinger]

Great points Leadguy. You and strat78 revealed to me that Ed didnt use the VH1 album cover version of Franky. Only the body of the franky was used. I actually liked the club and tour tones better than the first album, but that first album, along with stuff right before it's recording, and up and into October AFTER its recording have that unmistakable sound, which point to the mm pu, rosewood board black franky. When Ed painted the franky , swapped necks and pu's, I liked it just a hair more(looks AND tone), but I could hear that the guitar had changed, the set up of string height and certain spots of the neck where bends rang out a little different. Still, Eruption, was so remarkable with the all black Franky. I think it had a plastic nut, since most were then, and still are, as far as strat necks go. Plastic, all around, seems to be my favorite, though bone and brass have equally good flavors.


Stuntdouble, Strat78 or Leadguy should have a few good shots of it. Your right, it isnt but a little bit up from where yours appears to be.

[laneychris]

Tom Holmes 543 in my Koll Explorer does it for me.

[jimi22812]

You and strat78 revealed to me that Ed didnt use the VH1 album cover version of Franky. Only the body of the franky was used. I actually liked the club and tour tones better than the first album, but that first album, along with stuff right before it's recording, and up and into October AFTER its recording have that unmistakable sound, which point to the mm pu, rosewood board black franky. When Ed painted the franky , swapped necks and pu's, I liked it just a hair more(looks AND tone), but I could hear that the guitar had changed, the set up of string height and certain spots of the neck where bends rang out a little different. Still, Eruption, was so remarkable with the all black Franky.

I have serious doubts that VHI was recorded with an all-black Franky equipped with a rosewood neck... there has never been any conclusive proof presented, only supposition.

Are you referring to this guitar?


If so, that is not the Franky.

Stuntdouble, Strat78 or Leadguy should have a few good shots of it.

And if you're thinking about this version of the Franky...

...Ed put it together after the recording of VH I and just prior to painting it red.

Here's more to consider:
Ed in 1977...

... look at the Franky, draw your own conclusion...

Notice also that the Franky has an extra knob!

[Tone Slinger]

Well, Ed was first seen with the B&W stripes after the Die Laughing gig, going by promo posters that were up on a thread here a year or two ago. I cant remember if a Halloween gig('77) was the 'Famous' striped version debut or not. I know that the ('77/'78) New Years Eve/New Years show was indeed the stripes.

I recalled seeing other pics of that black strat rosewood necked strat that appeared to have the Franky look/shape.

Whether it is the Franky or not, this (black strat) seemed to be the strat used on VH1, which was apparently recorded in September '77.

[jimi22812]

I recalled seeing other pics of that black strat rosewood necked strat that appeared to have the Franky look/shape.

Whether it is the Franky or not, this (black strat) seemed to be the strat used on VH1.

Not arguing , everyone and their mother has their theories about Ed's gear and much sought after, highly coveted sound from those early days, but when you have to use words like "appeared" and "seemed" then you have to concede that you are in the realm of conjecture.

I think that the black strat was a result of Ed's efforts to circumvent the inherent thinness of the Strat bridge p/u by installing a humbucker. This undoubtedly changed the sound, but chances are he still wasn't completely satisfied. That's when he opted to go with a different type of wood and that's the point he made his way to Charvel/Boogie Bodies...

[Tone Slinger]

I can go by what I hear. I know amps and speakers affect a WHOLE lot, but my guitar rings a certain way when I bend the b string at the 20th fret as compared to other's guitars, just as an example. None of my guitars sound the same, and are distinguishable. My main strat, when played through different amps, still retains it's unique character. The strat used on VH1 AT LEAST had a different neck, and at most wasnt the Franky at all. It didnt ring in the common registers the same (5th fret, 12th fret, 17th fret as an example) as the 'famous' stripes, as heard on the tour.

Ed's Black and White striped Franky, to me, had his singular BEST tone, as evidenced by the slight sound change that happened when I first heard him use it (the first concrete stuff was the '77/'78 New years Eve Whiskey gig. This is the sound that he retained for the whole of the '78 tour, up to and including some of the tunes on VH2.

No EXACT proof, but I thought the dog eared guy's on this forum, once tipped off to it,would realize the guitar couldnt be the same one as used on the tour. If asked Michael Anthony, Roth, Alex, Rudy or Ted would tell the truth. But if you asked Ed, well .

[Tone Slinger]

Paulscape, is that a Epi or Gibson Explorer ? Your in the ball park for sure with that amp/guitar combo. I like the bray modded stuff alot. He knows how to get the sweetness out of the plexi.

[jimi22812]

I can go by what I hear. I know amps and speakers affect a WHOLE lot, but my guitar rings a certain way when I bend the b string at the 20th fret as compared to other's guitars, just as an example. None of my guitars sound the same, and are distinguishable. My main strat, when played through different amps, still retains it's unique character. The strat used on VH1 AT LEAST had a different neck, and at most wasnt the Franky at all. It didnt ring in the common registers the same (5th fret, 12th fret, 17th fret as an example) as the 'famous' stripes, as heard on the tour.

No EXACT proof, but I thought the dog eared guy's on this forum, once tipped off to it,would realize the guitar couldnt be the same one as used on the tour. If asked Michael Anthony, Roth, Alex, Rudy or Ted would tell the truth. But if you asked Ed, well .

Oops, here's my stop and where I get off: the corner of conspiracy and subjective analysis...

[leadguy]

Well no one is claiming that they are 100% right.

Ed first put a humbucker in a non humbucker guitar in his stock P-90 Goldtop Les Paul around 1974/75. There is a photo of him and Al and their keyboard player and Ed has routed out the P-90 bridge route to fit a bridge humbucker.
Then Ed used a P-90 LP Junior but gave up on it because it wouldn't stay in tune according to him.
Then Ed has what seems like a white Mighty Mite humbucker in a burst Strat in 1976 in the club photos.
Then there are club photos and flyers from early/mid 1977 with the silver Destroyer and the burst Strat.
Then this black guitar pops up at the end of May 1977 with what seems like a zebra Mighty Mite humbucker.
Mighty Mites were sold by Wayne Charvel and Ed was hanging around his shop.
Then in late 1977 the black and white Franky pops up with probably a PAF humbucker and the Destroyer is now the Shark as well.

[StuntDouble]

Well I got this sucker strung up and set up somewhat decently, and it sounds like 31 flavors of ballsack. Damn I'm disappointed; judging from the pics do you guys think I took out enough wood to kill the tone? It's super bright and thin; I was thinking this is a little bright and then I went and played my destroyer, and I thought damn...that thing sucks! The only other thing I can think of is the wilkinson trem doesn't quite touch the body and the neck is high enough off of the body I had to crank the saddles all the way up. Also, the trem doesn't make contact with the front of the trem route on the tremolo cavity, so theres very littl contact at all. I'm really hoping I didn't kill this body. Something of note to you guys wanting to route a strat body for a bridge humbucker; very little needs to be taken off of the back of the pup cavity. Most of what you will need to take of is on the front side.

[Tone Slinger]

The body is fine, I'd just move the pick up about a quarter to a third of an inch further away from the bridge. This is pure physics. It will give it more heft and size. Ed's B&W version had it like this (further from bridge) There is that pic of Ed with the maddox garden hoe. He had a pink/violet looking jumpsuit on. He has his guitars lined up. The Franky is there with a white Pick guard. It has just been painted red and still sports the cool Ellsworth/charvel neck with brass nut. That is a great reference photo to how far the pick up is away from the bridge.

I tell ya, the two post trems, regardless of the string going into the block, do not get the warmth and resonance of the 6 mounting screw variety. Those saddles are COOL on that Wilkinson though, cause they eleviate a little friction with thier angle and recessed guide line.

I think you will get a better sound by simply moving the pu a hair.

[StuntDouble]

The body is fine, I'd just move the pick up about a quarter to a third of an inch further away from the bridge. This is pure physics. It will give it more heft and size. Ed's B&W version had it like this (further from bridge) There is that pic of Ed with the maddox garden hoe. He had a pink/violet looking jumpsuit on. He has his guitars lined up. The Franky is there with a white Pick guard. It has just been painted red and still sports the cool Ellsworth/charvel neck with brass nut. That is a great reference photo to how far the pick up is away from the bridge.

I tell ya, the two post trems, regardless of the string going into the block, do not get the warmth and resonance of the 6 mounting screw variety. Those saddles are COOL on that Wilkinson though, cause they eleviate a little friction with thier angle and recessed guide line.

I think you will get a better sound by simply moving the pu a hair.

gotcha; I haven't even hooked up the pup yet. I was talking about the tone acoustically. It sounds super thin and shrill.

[jimi22812]

There is that pic of Ed with the maddox garden hoe. He had a pink/violet looking jumpsuit on. He has his guitars lined up. The Franky is there with a white Pick guard. It has just been painted red and still sports the cool Ellsworth/charvel neck with brass nut. That is a great reference photo to how far the pick up is away from the bridge.