Ed's Knob

[Good Guest]

Yeh that gainland pre has been around for a while:

http://www.vanweelden.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does make you wonder...bogner seen the insides ....roccoforte seen the insides.....cer opps seen the insides and this guy seen the insides.

Anyone else ? All except cer opps build amps.

The van weeldan guy even wields the phrase "brownsound"

[ROCK€]

...and this guy seen the insides.

Guitar Player March 1995:

Dweezil Zappa: "Do you ever think you want to get that sound again?"

Ed: "No. It's natural for me to go with the moment. Y'know what I mean?"

Dweezil Zappa: "Even though you used the same technique and gear on the early records, it really sounds different from record to record."

Ed: "Yeah, I know, but I don't know why. I used exactly that same amp head on every record, except for the last record when I used the Peavey 5150. On this new record I went back to the old Marshall plus the Peavey. But even the Marshall sounded different--I don't know . . . sun spots. [Laughs.] Maybe I just didn't like it that old way, because for a while I stopped using that Marshall amp because I just didn't like it any more."

Dweezil Zappa: "So it never really broke or anything? There's the big myth that it broke."

Ed: "Well, I thought it did. I think I broke--I just got tired of it."

Dweezil Zappa: "Did you get that amp modded?"

Ed: "No. You can check it out. It's a stock fuckin' amp."

Dweezil Zappa: "People are pulling their hair out trying to figure how to get that sound--myself included."

Ed: "I feel kind of bad, because Jose Arredondo just passed away. He was a buddy, and I tried to help him out business-wise. He used to do amp mods for people, so I said, "Go ahead and tell them that you do my amps." I was thinking it would help him, throw him a bone and get him some business. But if people only knew that amp is completely stock."

Dweezil Zappa: "They do now! [Laughs.]"

Ed: "I just plug into it and turn everything all the way up. There's no master volume. No extra tubes. There's no nothing to that amp. Matt Bruck [one of Eddie's techs] actually got me using that amp again because he had this guy Peter Van Weelden, who's totally into making Marshalls original again. He took mine and made it original, and I guarantee it doesn't really sound any different than the day I stopped using it. It's just cleaned up now, and it still goes "shhhhh" if you get too close to it. It does all the bullshit that I hate about a Marshall, but it does have a unique sound."

Dweezil Zappa: "Why do the solos on the first album have such unbelievable bite?"

Ed: "I used a Phase 90 on almost every solo on that record. It's got a twang to it."

[Grosh_Guitars]

...and this guy seen the insides.

Guitar Player March 1995:


Dweezil Zappa: "Did you get that amp modded?"

Ed: "No. You can check it out. It's a stock fuckin' amp."

Ed: "I feel kind of bad, because Jose Arredondo just passed away. He was a buddy, and I tried to help him out business-wise. He used to do amp mods for people, so I said, "Go ahead and tell them that you do my amps." I was thinking it would help him, throw him a bone and get him some business. But if people only knew that amp is completely stock."


Ed: "I just plug into it and turn everything all the way up. There's no master volume. No extra tubes. There's no nothing to that amp. Matt Bruck [one of Eddie's techs] actually got me using that amp again because he had this guy Peter Van Weelden, who's totally into making Marshalls original again. He took mine and made it original, and I guarantee it doesn't really sound any different than the day I stopped using it. It's just cleaned up now, and it still goes "shhhhh" if you get too close to it. It does all the bullshit that I hate about a Marshall, but it does have a unique sound."

Yeah I remember reading this now. It was just a good sounding Marshall. Not magic. Just good. It's all in Ed;s hands and the hands of the engineer Don Landee. Simple as that.

[leadguy]

Yes the amp has a certain EQ and sustain about it and all the cascade mods and master volume mods are too much gain IMO and some stock Plexis might be a bit short on the gain and EQ and sustain but Ed's sort of gain is something some Plexi's can do.
My long gone Plexi could do it, maybe not exactly like Ed's but pretty close and I have no idea what year it was because I wasn't a gearhead at that time just a hard working player.

VH1 and VH11 were recorded in different rooms in different studios and that is going to produce different tones and also things like different mic positions etc.

Listen to this iso track and compare it to the VH1 iso tracks http://forum.metroamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=29382" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course Ed's gain and EQ and sustain could be helped along by a small mod (not a cascade or master) that he considers unimportant that he and Rudy came up with which might explain the white knob.
In the early days, Rudy and Ed seem like hacks to me and not guys that were amp techs or guitar techs and Jose wasn't a high gain mod type of tube amp guy, from what I've read he did a lot of TV repairs etc but Jose seemed to copy the higher gain mods going around in the 60s and 70s when Ed sent him some business, nothing really new in the Jose mods from what I can see.

When is a amp mod not a amp mod?
When no parts are added or removed.

[leadguy]

“I was the only one back then who would just take everything on the amp and turn it full-blast up. And between songs, I would walk back to the amp and go, ‘Why won’t it go up any further?’ I’ve been pretty much known to push everything past the limit, then back it off a little bit, you know? It’s kind of like a finely tuned racecar—they push everything to the limit. It’s gotta scream.”

“In the old club days, I used to take that stuff you tack on the wall in the recording studio—that egg carton foam stuff—I used to have a slab of that and I’d duct-tape it to the from of my cabinet because I felt bad for the people sitting right down front sipping there little Mai Tai, or whatever the hell, with the cabinet three feet away from their heads. I was kind to them.”

“I remember when we played clubs—I had that approach to my playing since about ’74 with the old amps I used to use—people would tell me ‘You can’t use them like that!’ I’d go ‘Really? Watch this!’ There were little tricks that I did to keep it from blowing. All kinds of guitarists used to keep on coming; snooping around; seeing what the hell I was doing, but it was pretty basic, really—just turn it all the way up.”

[MarkCameron]

There are many problems with the M.C. photos, and the lack of a knob isn't really one of them. First, there's nothing solid to indicate this is THE amp. The photos are heavily cropped and don't show much of the inside walls of the chassis which would help us figure out if it's the right amp. Second, this might not be the original spec of the amp, and if these shots were taken by Cameron himself they would be how the amp is today, not really how it was 30 years ago. Plus, there are no notes to tell us what the values are, so we can't even experiment to see if the specs pictured are any good.

Photos of Bigfoot are nice, but a live Bigfoot would be better.

Dave F already said it is the same amp. Im not going to give you guys fake info ...whats the point?? really whats to be gained by that ???? Some where around here I posted the rest of the pics ...with hole for master and s# ..........kind of stock....74 SLP type circuit w/.047 output caps.......not that big of a deal.

[spaceace76]

can you re-post the photos now?

i'm not saying you're spreading false info, but how do we know Dave F is getting the right info? Did you see the AFD100 videos? Slash can't even remember if #39 was a JCM or a 1959 style amp. Why would Ed's memory be any better? I'm sure plenty of techs have had their hands in his amps, so seeing the amp as it is today is may not be helpful for achieving his early tone. He's not a technical guy either, so there's not much assurance he knows EXACTLY what changes have been made over the years.

[MarkCameron]

“I was the only one back then who would just take everything on the amp and turn it full-blast up. And between songs, I would walk back to the amp and go, ‘Why won’t it go up any further?’ I’ve been pretty much known to push everything past the limit, then back it off a little bit, you know? It’s kind of like a finely tuned racecar—they push everything to the limit. It’s gotta scream.”

“In the old club days, I used to take that stuff you tack on the wall in the recording studio—that egg carton foam stuff—I used to have a slab of that and I’d duct-tape it to the from of my cabinet because I felt bad for the people sitting right down front sipping there little Mai Tai, or whatever the hell, with the cabinet three feet away from their heads. I was kind to them.”

“I remember when we played clubs—I had that approach to my playing since about ’74 with the old amps I used to use—people would tell me ‘You can’t use them like that!’ I’d go ‘Really? Watch this!’ There were little tricks that I did to keep it from blowing. All kinds of guitarists used to keep on coming; snooping around; seeing what the hell I was doing, but it was pretty basic, really—just turn it all the way up.”

I work/worked in these clubs...(started doing this stuff at 13...I'm 42 now).........if you really think this stuff is true .......I don't think you have ever played live in a club like these.

"There were little tricks that I did to keep it from blowing"

"In the old club days, I used to take that stuff you tack on the wall in the recording studio—that egg carton foam stuff—I used to have a slab of that and I’d duct-tape it to the from of my cabinet because I felt bad for the people sitting right down front sipping there little Mai Tai, or whatever the hell, with the cabinet three feet away from their heads. I was kind to them.”

This he did do!! but it seemed he did this mostly with the Fender amp from what I understand.


Leadguy you are sooooooooooooooooooo off and coming to wrong conclusions from lack of experience....its

[MarkCameron]

can you re-post the photos now?

i'm not saying you're spreading false info, but how do we know Dave F is getting the right info? Did you see the AFD100 videos? Slash can't even remember if #39 was a JCM or a 1959 style amp. Why would Ed's memory be any better? I'm sure plenty of techs have had their hands in his amps, so seeing the amp as it is today is may not be helpful for achieving his early tone. He's not a technical guy either, so there's not much assurance he knows EXACTLY what changes have been made over the years.

I'm not going to go back and forth with you. If you do a search you will see what I've already said.

[spaceace76]

I've already seen what you've said. Doesn't change the fact that we have nothing specific on the specs of the amp back in the early days. Serial number or not, there could be anything under the hood of that amp.

Just like many don't care what pickup is in Franky today, many won't care about the specs of Ed's #1 today. Interesting, yes, but not definitive by any means.

[MarkCameron]

I've already seen what you've said. Doesn't change the fact that we have nothing specific on the specs of the amp back in the early days. Serial number or not, there could be anything under the hood of that amp.

Just like many don't care what pickup is in Franky today, many won't care about the specs of Ed's #1 today. Interesting, yes, but not definitive by any means.

I do agree with you the old tone is what we want...and its all I'm talking about.......

Look I'm going on what I know.....from the people I know and knew back then......then add the fact.....I did get most of Jose's shop.......then I show you guys pics........I'm not here posting info that I haven't looked into either.

You are not going to find......I don't think......find anyone who is just going to just come here and just lay it all out for you. The big main thing about Ed is the way he plays

[spaceace76]

The big main thing about his playing is the way he plays

I agree 1000% with this Mark. I've been practicing a lot more lately because of that.

[leadguy]

“I was the only one back then who would just take everything on the amp and turn it full-blast up. And between songs, I would walk back to the amp and go, ‘Why won’t it go up any further?’ I’ve been pretty much known to push everything past the limit, then back it off a little bit, you know? It’s kind of like a finely tuned racecar—they push everything to the limit. It’s gotta scream.”

“In the old club days, I used to take that stuff you tack on the wall in the recording studio—that egg carton foam stuff—I used to have a slab of that and I’d duct-tape it to the from of my cabinet because I felt bad for the people sitting right down front sipping there little Mai Tai, or whatever the hell, with the cabinet three feet away from their heads. I was kind to them.”

“I remember when we played clubs—I had that approach to my playing since about ’74 with the old amps I used to use—people would tell me ‘You can’t use them like that!’ I’d go ‘Really? Watch this!’ There were little tricks that I did to keep it from blowing. All kinds of guitarists used to keep on coming; snooping around; seeing what the hell I was doing, but it was pretty basic, really—just turn it all the way up.”

I work/worked in these clubs...(started doing this stuff at 13...I'm 42 now).........if you really think this stuff is true .......I don't think you have ever played live in a club like these.

"There were little tricks that I did to keep it from blowing"

"In the old club days, I used to take that stuff you tack on the wall in the recording studio—that egg carton foam stuff—I used to have a slab of that and I’d duct-tape it to the from of my cabinet because I felt bad for the people sitting right down front sipping there little Mai Tai, or whatever the hell, with the cabinet three feet away from their heads. I was kind to them.”

This he did do!! but it seemed he did this mostly with the Fender amp from what I understand.


Leadguy you are sooooooooooooooooooo off and coming to wrong conclusions from lack of experience....its

Whatever, those quotes are from Ed not from me.

FYI I saw and played with Aussie pub bands like Rose Tattoo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6JX5w7HgHI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and AC/DC before they went to England and also unknown bands that were playing Deep Purple or whatever covers and there was no slaving going on just a Marshall turned up.
If anyone says this is impossible well it's BS.
It was loud.
I don't play at pubs/clubs anymore and havn't really since the 80s and a fair few pubs/clubs have shut down or gone DJ.

Personally I'd rather not talk about myself and not have schoolboy like personal attacks either.

I'm sure the Mumps guitarist is slaving at the Whiskey.

[StuntDouble]

I've already seen what you've said. Doesn't change the fact that we have nothing specific on the specs of the amp back in the early days. Serial number or not, there could be anything under the hood of that amp.

Just like many don't care what pickup is in Franky today, many won't care about the specs of Ed's #1 today. Interesting, yes, but not definitive by any means.

I do agree with you the old tone is what we want...and its all I'm talking about.......

Look I'm going on what I know.....from the people I know and knew back then......then add the fact.....I did get most of Jose's shop.......then I show you guys pics........I'm not here posting info that I haven't looked into either.

You are not going to find......I don't think......find anyone who is just going to just come here and just lay it all out for you. The big main thing about Ed is the way he plays

Mark,

There's a lot of us here that really appreciate what you and Dave F. have shared. I've used it to set up a rig that is just awesome for getting Ed's early sound based on the info you guys have provided. The only problem is my ability and it's far and away the biggest limiting factor.

I hear a lot of stuff from guys here about how a 100 watt superlead can't get the levels of gain that Ed got, and I wonder how many of them have run one flat out with the right effects in front? I had no idea how much gain can be gotten from an MXR 6 band and an Echoplex/ or ep-3 pedal into a dimed 100 watter until I tried it. The noise and hiss is just insane but the gain is almost there; what isn't there is that glassiness, edge and headroom. Some of you guys are getting hung up on the amount of gain, but to my ears what sets VH1 apart, more than just the gain, is the feel. It's glassy with tons of clean headroom, even though it seems to have more gain than VH2 or subsequent early albums. I've never gotten this any other way than slaving. When I tried it, through a transformer isolated line out box, it was like a eureka moment.

It's not just about gain guys; listen to the feel, headroom and dynamic response of the amp(s) are different.

[leadguy]

Those quotes from Ed about covering the cabinet are about volume.
Ed was playing places like Barnacle Bills and I don't know how big Barnacle Bills was but it doesn't sound like a huge venue, so he might have used cabinet covering for some gigs and not others depending on the venue.

The Whiskey has had loads of non slaving guitarists with 100 watt amps so Ed slaving for volume is just BS.
Ed hasn't got the cabinets covered at the Mumps Whiskey date at the end of May 1977.

Ed says he didn't slave until the H&H amps so that's what has to be accepted until someone has some proof and not just feelings or judgments based on someones gear or photos that aren't clear or whatever.

If I see any proof then I will be the first to accept it, if that means anything.

It just seems to go around in circles.

Studio and live tones are full of variables.

Ed's boots from the Whiskey are from a venue with completely different acoustics from the Sunset Sound Studio 1 room.
Even though it's miced at the amps and might be recorded through the desk, it's still going to be acoustically different and different to what the crowd hears as well.

The way Ed's cabinet was miced and all the reverb room processing and the recording gear at Sunset Sound and Donn and Ted are all missing from the live boots.

The GH iso's sound pretty ordinary to me but Ed's playing doesn't.
The GH iso's are just a brightish Marshall tone to me with more sustain than gain and there is a rough edge to it so it comes across as bright and edgy and that mixed with Ed's hyper playing and the Sunset Sound processing polish seems to be it to me.

Ed was changing gear all through 1977 and the gear used for the Warner Bros Demos is not the same gear that was used for the October 15th boots. No JBL's for the Mumps end of May Whiskey date and different pickups (PAF's) and JBL speakers seem to be added in late 1977. Ed never seemed to stick with any gear setup for too long but had a brightish tone with all the different combinations of 1977 gear.

So good luck getting one gear setup to duplicate Ed's early tone if that's what someone want to do because Ed had several early gear setups.

If someone wants to be a Ed clone or even just to be somewhat influenced by Ed, then concentrating on Ed's early playing is 99% of it and not loading up your house with gear.
What good is a Ferrari if you ain't got a license.

Whether Ed's playing through a cassette player and overloading it or playing stadium rigs he still sounds like Ed and he probably came up with a lot of VH riffs overloading a cassette player and not using an awesome sounding rig.

If Clapton played Ed's VH1 setup he'd sound like a brighter Clapton with a bit more gain.


All at the Whiskey.

Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton are not slaving for volume and were LOUD.