Endless slaving headache.

[MrBeasty]

But te above remark concluding solid state cannot keep up by merely using a rocktron velocity power amp.... its biased as this amp in particular i have had and it is colored oddly and no where as optimum as some other solid state choices. The velocity series sucks. Sorry if someone owns one but its no HH, randall, or matrix-these are on another level.

+1

I have a Velocity 300 fora VERY short while. It was terrible. Any tube power-amp is better than what these deliver.
If money is tight, get an old Mesa 50/50 or a Peavey Classic. On the Solid State side, the old H|H (duh!) or the old TubeWorks Mosvalve are pretty nice.

My $0.02!

As far as the W/D/W conversation, IMHO, it is about finding the right balance between power and size. If you run a dimmed 100 watt head with a 2x100 watts (or equivalent SS) slaved-power-amp, into three cabinets you will get "the goods" for sure! However, most the time you will run that rig on "3" in order to maintain sanity, keep your job in the band, and keep the band employed (unless you're Steven Stevens or EVH). Sadly, a rig like that doesn't sound so hot on "3".
That is where using smaller amps becomes fruitful because you can push things harder and keep the dBs low.
You definitely need to make sure your dry side is in phase with your wet sides. Otherwise you are defeating the purpose of this whole set-up. Things will be tiny and you will lack low-end.

My other $0.02!

[dirtycooter]

by dirtycooter » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:57 am I am for sure gettin a matrix. I want a gt1000 but since I am w/d only I will go with the gm50. I don't need stereo.

Interesting that alot of people are starting to go w/d instead of w/d/w these days. I noticed that Pete Thorn was using w/d between two Marshall 4x12's on his 2012 touring rig video on YouTube, and when I saw Jeff Beck a couple years ago (it's already been 2 years?), Beck was using w/d between 2 Marshall halfstacks with a Lexicon Alex for the wet side. Also, in The Song Remains the Same, Page has a separate half-stack for his Echoplex, and one for his theremin/echoplex too. They all sound great. Less complicated too. Guess if it 'aint broke don't fix it...

I think it just gets toooo busy sounding when you got so much goin on with stereo delays and all that goin on.
Just gimme a simple short delay for some room and thickening on all the time and then 300ms for more space effect on top of that and I am good to go.
Full wdw complicates everything-the mix sound and the whole mess. I wanna hear more raw tone not just fx.

[chrisom]

That makes sense. While I'm sure it's always going to be better to do the w/d setup with (2) separate 4x12 cabs, what do you think about using w/d in a single Marshall 4x12 as in one of the JCM stereo 1960A/1960B cabs? Any problems with phase cancellation or with both elements being in the same box? (Since I'm old and free roadies are hard to come by)

[jnew]

I can see how splitting one 4X12 for a wet/dry op, may interrupt the natural order of things. A separate 2X12, or even a 1X12 could do the trick for you though, while still being pretty easy.

[BnATX]

That makes sense. While I'm sure it's always going to be better to do the w/d setup with (2) separate 4x12 cabs, what do you think about using w/d in a single Marshall 4x12 as in one of the JCM stereo 1960A/1960B cabs? Any problems with phase cancellation or with both elements being in the same box? (Since I'm old and free roadies are hard to come by)

I actually just tried this today. Made a new plate on the back and wired the top two in paralell and the two bottom as a right and a left. Only played with it a few minutes but for reverbs and such it was sounding pretty good. As i was running thru the presets (using an old Digitech Studio 100) some of them started to, not sure how to describe it, kind of got loud and like you grounded the tip of a guitar cord. If that makes any sense at all. Going to check it out more this weekend and see what effects were loaded on those presets. I don't really use effects that much but wanted to add some reverb(amp reverb did not sound good) or delay and stuff. I don't play out , just a bedroom wanna be wish i had a tiny bit of the talent that flows on this board.
My setup is a Randall (Marshall build in the planning stages ), out to a load/line out(set to no load), back out to the top two speakers for the dry, and i put paralell line outs(on the load/lineout box) and that goes to the Digitech and then to a Velocity 100(yes, i know , some think they suck its what i have) out to the two bottom speakers.

[jnew]

Very interesting. Now that's thinking inside the box.

For some practice fun, I bet it's pretty cool sounding.

[dirtycooter]

Actually yes that works but you lose all 4 barkers hittin together in the same cab so it could lose some character plus you lose a 16 ohm load as well. For the vh thing it could be dangerous if you've got some meak greenbacks takin the heat on just two speakers-scary
I am thinkin maybe the combination jack allowing 4 ohm / 16 ohm mono or 8/8 stereo would allow stereo verb and dealys if you wanted it convenient to experiment in a seperate wet cab. Just plug it in how you wanna do it and you're off to the races.
Just spoke with guys over at Huge racks-I am modding my lineout box for two outputs so I have a dry and wet feed.
When I get the matrix I can ditch the palmer as it will be un-neccassary other than goin direct to board.
So I will be takin that out of the signal path I think. We'll see how it goes.
But one extra wet 4x12 wired with the combi jack would let you set the cab off to the side for hard panned but stereo reverb or stacked directly on top of the dry 4x12 for a wdw small foot print rig. Even mono plain w/d. You have wdw, w/d, and dww capability here.
Versatile as hell when you think of it.

[BnATX]

Using heavy modulation and pitch shifting type effects i get horible booming charging rhino sounds. ha
Too much going on in one cab i would suppose.
Fairly wet reverb settings sound pretty good.
I was curious, i had the stuff, it was an experiment, will not leave it.
I have other cabs to use for the wet side of things. just wanted to see what happens, now it know.

Rock On !

[chrisom]

I am thinkin maybe the combination jack allowing 4 ohm / 16 ohm mono or 8/8 stereo would allow stereo verb and delays if you wanted it convenient to experiment in a separate wet cab. Just plug it in how you wanna do it and you're off to the races....Versatile as hell when you think of it.

Yep, you're probably right, plus two 4x12's side-by-side looks cooler too...

3D Rig b.JPG (35.86 KiB) Viewed 1113 times

[JimiJames]

Q?
What are the pro's & con's not using that load box's line out and come from the Head's V1-lo or V2, then to the effects unit ?

[chrisom]

I wish I knew. I don't have any experience or expertise to answer that question- only that I've always believed that's how they used to do it "old school". I think it would sound more "studio authentic"-sounding to use the dummy load line out for reverb/delay/echo/chorus effects, plus I really like to have to fewer effects up-front in-between the guitar and the amp (wah, a distortion/fuzz/OD device, MAYBE a MXR or EH phaser or flanger...).

Does which spare jack you use make a difference? Would it be the same or better than using a Y-cord? I bet Eric Johnson could tell us, but I can't. Unlike many here, though an Echoplex sounds great when it's ON, I don't care for the straight guitar sound going through one when the effect is turned OFF, so to me it's a moot point. I only mentioned the spare input jack thing to the guy with the Peavey amp because I didn't realize he was planning on using a dummy load from his first amp, and I knew he wanted his second amp to be for effects. I just assumed Jimmy Page and Hendrix were delegating separate heads/cabs for echoplex returns because they sounded so great live and that was probably their only option.

Anybody have the answer?

[rgorke]

I am thinkin maybe the combination jack allowing 4 ohm / 16 ohm mono or 8/8 stereo would allow stereo verb and delays if you wanted it convenient to experiment in a separate wet cab. Just plug it in how you wanna do it and you're off to the races....Versatile as hell when you think of it.

Yep, you're probably right, plus two 4x12's side-by-side looks cooler too...

3D Rig b.JPG

Q?
What are the pro's & con's not using that load box's line out and come from the Head's V1-lo or V2, then to the effects unit ?

isn't the load box unnecessary for that setup? The amp is seeing 16 ohms (or whatever) from the dry cabinet. You could just take a line level from the other speaker jack. Unless the "load box" is actually an attenuator with a line out. Either way, you could take the line from the speaker jack and bring it down using which ever line level design.

Or am I missing something?

[MrBeasty]

I wish I knew. I don't have any experience or expertise to answer that question- only that I've always believed that's how they used to do it "old school". I think it would sound more "studio authentic"-sounding to use the dummy load line out for reverb/delay/echo/chorus effects, plus I really like to have to fewer effects up-front in-between the guitar and the amp (wah, a distortion/fuzz/OD device, MAYBE a MXR or EH phaser or flanger...).

Does which spare jack you use make a difference? Would it be the same or better than using a Y-cord? I bet Eric Johnson could tell us, but I can't. Unlike many here, though an Echoplex sounds great when it's ON, I don't care for the straight guitar sound going through one when the effect is turned OFF, so to me it's a moot point. I only mentioned the spare input jack thing to the guy with the Peavey amp because I didn't realize he was planning on using a dummy load from his first amp, and I knew he wanted his second amp to be for effects. I just assumed Jimmy Page and Hendrix were delegating separate heads/cabs for echoplex returns because they sounded so great live and that was probably their only option.

Anybody have the answer?

All the speaker jacks are in line on the same OT tap, therefore it does not matter which one you use as long as there is a load (speaker or otherwise) to interact with the OT. It only taps a tiny amount of signal so it should have no impact on the amp's behavior.
For the vintage VH stuff, it's all effects upfront and line-out into the input of extra heads for more loudness.

[dirtycooter]

Just pulled the trigger on a 1u gt1000fx so I am expecting a new toy here in about 5-7 days.
Hoping this will allow me to have a cleaner signal path with less active stuff in line.
Possibly could save my palmer for goin direct only as I just learned on HRI from Suhr I can add another (heard I could have 4 total possibly) line out signals off my one c.a.e. lineout box. I will take pics while I am in there addin some more jacks in parallel.
So now I will maybe have simpler rig and more compact.
I will be losin the 3 space behemoth heavy crown and goin to a 10lb 1 u power amp.

Also of mention I scored a behringer 1u rack mount line mixer-its rane sm82 copy for the most part basically.
I steer away from behringer stuff but for $75 I snagged it and it works great!! So it will clean up my rack even more.
Actually I could potentially stuff it all into 4 rackspaces now if I wanted.
Just waiting on the matrix test run when it arrives

[JimiJames]

...Just pulled the trigger on a 1u gt1000fx...I scored a behringer 1u rack mount line mixer-its rane sm82 copy for the most part basically.
I steer away from behringer stuff but for $75... ...

... you can't have that in the same post ? balderdash !


So? Is this Stan's one? If it is why 3ch to 2ch D/W. W/D/W stereo ? (Thorny's sounds killer w/Bray & JB)

And for arguments sake I just notice the (what I call unnecessary) wattage in the cottage or plain ole overkill for the gt1000.

If someone were looking for a single space power amp that delivers, my thoughts go to old Crown for solidstate & the old hybrid ADA series Microtube 200 (& 100) Stereo Power Amplifier w/12ax7 tubes.