Franky's P.A.F ?

[bmf5150]

Years ago,maybe 2004 some one on this board had one and posted sound clips of one ..

[EJSLPlexi]

Years ago,maybe 2004 some one on this board had one and posted sound clips of one ..

I did a search and nothing maybe it got lost during that outage metro had?
The t-top alone will not cut it but with a EQ,EP3 and maybe something else eddie may have used it would sound really great.
I know that through a high gain amp, these lower output pu's sound awesome!
but the trick it to get the plexi to get more gain without taking aways its natural tone?
thats the real trick and maybe for VH I eddie found it?
all i know is if ed did use T-top's and duncan 78's they need help with a plexi.
a DSD or mighty mite does not.

[fivecoyote]

T-Tops are money to my ears. I had one for years and was my fave pickup. VH-ish for sure, but just short of the oomph needed even with an 800-style amp let alone a plexi. But it sounded great -- clear, responsive to pick attack, beautiful tone. I had it in an old Lester Paul....

[EJSLPlexi]

T-Tops are money to my ears. I had one for years and was my fave pickup. VH-ish for sure, but just short of the oomph needed even with an 800-style amp let alone a plexi. But it sounded great -- clear, responsive to pick attack, beautiful tone. I had it in an old Lester Paul....

Fivecoyote, Glad to see you like them as well, I never brought them up before because they have such a low output and by themselves cant push a marshall NMV amp.
But i agree with you when used with a boost of some sort they sound outstanding, listen to old Michael schenker for what a T-top sounds like.
I have one i made myself by taking a gibson 490R and installing a small bar roughcast A5 in one of my guitars and love it like you said it has the tone.You have to use a 490R that is around 7.5K
I was told by gibson the 490R is the same thing as the old T-tops except it is wax potted and uses a A2.
So if you put in a short A5 you get a T-top, the 490R uses the same wire and gauge #42(poly)
the gibson 490T makes a hotter T-top at 8.2K with the mag swap.

[Tone Slinger]

I put an EVH model '78 in my strat & that nails the early VH vibe much better

+1!!! I haven't heard a p/u yet that can come as close. The story I read in GP mag, was that before recording the first album, Ed took his old Gibson PAF to Seymour and said "Wind it to these specs". Seymour did and then scribbled out a quick schematic on a piece of paper. That piece of paper was archived for years, and only recently did Seymour find it again, and subsequently offer the unauthorized version first as the "Evenly Voiced Harmonics" (EVH), and now as the "'78 Model" from his custom shop line.
It's an exact copy of the p/u Ed used in his strat on the first album, so I don't know why people that are wanting that tone, even bother with other p/u's...(?)

I wonder if this story really pans out ?

[EJSLPlexi]

I put an EVH model '78 in my strat & that nails the early VH vibe much better

+1!!! I haven't heard a p/u yet that can come as close. The story I read in GP mag, was that before recording the first album, Ed took his old Gibson PAF to Seymour and said "Wind it to these specs". Seymour did and then scribbled out a quick schematic on a piece of paper. That piece of paper was archived for years, and only recently did Seymour find it again, and subsequently offer the unauthorized version first as the "Evenly Voiced Harmonics" (EVH), and now as the "'78 Model" from his custom shop line.
It's an exact copy of the p/u Ed used in his strat on the first album, so I don't know why people that are wanting that tone, even bother with other p/u's...(?)

I wonder if this story really pans out ?

According to MJ at duncans custom shop she said "eddie had seymour wind him a pickup and it was used for VH I and after.
That is the pu we(seymour duncan company) sell as the 78 ,it was originally called EVH for evenly voiced harmonics.
but after EVH gear inc. started selling products the term EVH was trademarked and duncan had to rename the pu.
I asked her If i wanted the same exact pu eddie had for the first record and that is the one she said to get. The duncan 78.
she had no recollection of why the duncan custom was labeled as a van halen pickup in 79 so she could not answer that?
But she definitely said for the VH I and other early tones the 78 is the one and for later tones the IM1 model we sell(also known as the EVH frankenstein) is the pu he used.
call her like i did, i never got a reply to my email so i just called and spoke to her about it.
telephone from 7 AM to 5 PM Pacific Time, Monday-Friday, call -805-964-9610 ext 1009

Here is what you see on the duncan site,
WHAT IS THE EVH MODEL?
There is no "EVH" pickup. There is, however, a custom shop pickup called the 78 Model, which some people abbreviate as "E.V.H.," because it offers evenly-voiced harmonics. The 78 Model pickup is a faithful recreation of the legendary low-output, Alnico 2, P.A.F.-style humbucker that Seymour designed in 1978 for various high-profile artists he was working with at the time. This pickup should not be associated with any specific artist. The traditional 78 Model comes with single conductor braided shield cable and a bottom plate with long mounting legs.

To be honest duncan confuses me? on the phone they said he wound it for eddie but on the web site it say's not to associate it with any specific artist??

[rgorke]

To be honest duncan confuses me? on the phone they said he wound it for eddie but on the web site it say's not to associate it with any specific artist??

Yet, the guy in the video plays all VH tunes.

I think this comes down to what works for your rig. Using a pickup that folks say Ed used with your amp, my amp, other amps, may not get you to VH1...or it might. There are several that will get you front row seats to the Dutch Treat.

I still go back to Ed saying "rewound pickups" as in more than one. He most likely gave Seymour a couple three or four and Seymour wound different specs...a little hotter with A2 ('78), a lot hotter like DSD with ceramic (Custom), a lot hotter with A2 (franky IM1). Ed then tried them all along the way. MJ, Seymour, and Ed probably don't even know or remember what was in his guitar during the VH1 recording. He was switching stuff quite a bit. How many times have you worked on your amp or guitar one evening or night and thought it sounded dead nuts then the neck morning..."what happened?!?!?! It sounded so good last night" must be the pickup.

So, there is room for quite a few very possible and logical outcomes that fall into the " Ed used PAFs" AND "PAFs rewound by someone (Seymour)".

[EJSLPlexi]

To be honest duncan confuses me? on the phone they said he wound it for eddie but on the web site it say's not to associate it with any specific artist??

Yet, the guy in the video plays all VH tunes.

I think this comes down to what works for your rig. Using a pickup that folks say Ed used with your amp, my amp, other amps, may not get you to VH1...or it might. There are several that will get you front row seats to the Dutch Treat.

I still go back to Ed saying "rewound pickups" as in more than one. He most likely gave Seymour a couple three or four and Seymour wound different specs...a little hotter with A2 ('78), a lot hotter like DSD with ceramic (Custom), a lot hotter with A2 (franky IM1). Ed then tried them all along the way. MJ, Seymour, and Ed probably don't even know or remember what was in his guitar during the VH1 recording. He was switching stuff quite a bit. How many times have you worked on your amp or guitar one evening or night and thought it sounded dead nuts then the neck morning..."what happened?!?!?! It sounded so good last night" must be the pickup.

So, there is room for quite a few very possible and logical outcomes that fall into the " Ed used PAFs" AND "PAFs rewound by someone (Seymour)".

Excellent post and that last part about it not sounding as good the next day?
happened to me so many times i lost count

Not to throw more confusion into this but does anyone else think eddie may have used more than just one bucker
in the strat for VH I?
I mean when i hear "eruption" i hear a different tone than on "little dreamer" and both are the same strat?
eruption is said to me recorded last so maybe he swapped out what was in the strat for the tunes he did before that was recorded?

[dirtycooter]

Timeline
The Custom comes on scene.... breifly labeled as THE pickup.

Over 20yrs later a complete polar opposite called the 78 flies up

Then as the Frankenstein EVH copy makes its debut... IM1 comes out. And again... a total polar opposite once more since the 78 specs were "found again".
SD cashes in on the pickup thing 6 ways from Sunday. Why did he have to steer away from EVH label and go 78? It is clear Ed dos not approve.

I dunno about you fellas but in my line of work, requiring real detective skills, all of this is not making sense. No matter which way you slice it the pieces do not fit. The statements, the lack of solid factual information which is totally left unconfirmed or able to be confirmed, the vagueness of everything surrounding the whole story comin out of Seymours side??

Well... somebody is lying. Its just that simple. Ed only was pissed about the Custom. And now he isn't pissed about the other two?? Get the f outta dodge. Seymour got his hands slapped way back in the beginning but doesn't now?
Also the fact we know the EVH camp protects everything it has pretty extensively as trademark/copywrite.

Its fishy fishy fishy fishy. Bundled conveniently and carefully into a finely woven web of confusion.

[dirtycooter]

And No on the more than one pickup in the strat for VH1
Reason is they stated they whipped out double the songs thy have on vh1 when they went in and basically it was stated they blew through almost 30 songs in record time in the studio. That tells me they went in, banged it out, and left. There wasn't t8me for any foolin around lime some bands do that spend like a year on a record.
Wasn't it Ted that said this and they were like almost done in demo fashion on the fly and fast?

[dirtycooter]

Anyone know wtf claptons LP had in it?? Remember, Ed began his tone chase right there. He was a Clapton freak. It would be interesting to know what type of PAF's were in Claptons axes. This would be more of an origin starting point I would think for Ed.

[rdodson]

Anyone know wtf claptons LP had in it?? Remember, Ed began his tone chase right there. He was a Clapton freak. It would be interesting to know what type of PAF's were in Claptons axes. This would be more of an origin starting point I would think for Ed.

The Beano LP was a '60 and would have had a PAF in it. The Cream stuff was done with a '63 335 and a '64 SG which both would have had patent number pickups. A5 most probably.

[EJSLPlexi]

Anyone know wtf claptons LP had in it?? Remember, Ed began his tone chase right there. He was a Clapton freak. It would be interesting to know what type of PAF's were in Claptons axes. This would be more of an origin starting point I would think for Ed.

The Cream stuff was done with a '63 335 and a '64 SG which both would have had patent number pickups. A5 most probably.

yep short A5's, my '61 is a short 5
by the start of the 60's gibson finally started making the Pu's more consistent from one to the next
In stock form the 63 and 64 should have short A5 bar mags.
One real important note about the older pre 60's PAF's
they were/are a real crap shoot, some sound glorious and some are really bad!
some have A5,some A2,A3 or A4 and they are wound all over the map from 7K all the way up to the high 9'K's
I have heard genuine 58's and 59's that sound no better than a duncan 59.
So sometimes you dont get what you pay for.
I would never buy a PAF before hearing it, i was lucky both my 59 and 61 were bought from a guy i knew
but had i bought them on Ebay or wherever it would be taking a real chance for not just tone issues but FAKES!

[TWANGGG]

Gibson started using short A5 magnets in PAF's during 1961. So if that double black PAF in VH1 Franky actually did come out of Ed's 1961 ES-335, or was original to any other '61 or later Gibson, it would mean a short A5 magnet in it is somewhere between likely and certain.

Here's a photo I found scouring the internet for shots of PAF magnets. The pickup on the left just so happens to be out of a 1961 Gibson ES-335, and it's a PAF with a short magnet.

[dirtycooter]

See these are the reasons A5 makes more sense to me. I am not stirring the pot here in an anti A2 tyraid...
But there is just absolutely nothing. NOTHING! Pointing in A2's favor. Other than the 78, which is a fishy Seymour spin, maybe a degaussed Franky A2 replica..... A5 is kickin doors in and stakin way more victories.

Timeline of the PAF mags
Ttop lovin mofos abound
A8 super 70 closer to A5 than A2
DSD theory-A5 is closer to ceramic than A2
All the A5 production of EVH sig guitars more than 4to1 ratio by far
Barenuckles fans
Vics Peacemaker clips-A5 (these were the first widely known brown clips in years starting off the tone search once again circa 02/03)
The Custom following so close on the heels of DSD with an A5 makeup
Ralle using JB in clips A5 now DSD
Rockstah steering away from A2
IM1 is A5
A huge list of A5 clips that many like too numetous to list really

I get a hernia straining trying to find A2 evidence all based on mostly Seymour double speak that dares not at all to make any solid factual legit in stone claim.... but puts a spin on the search that makes no sense whatsoever when investigated in a logical factual manner.
And I WANT to find more deeper rooted A2 arguements but I really can't see anything other than speculation.
And all my fave top clips ever are A5 and ceramic.