Ed's small box 50 watter ?

[Tone Slinger]

I notice on some pics of small box 50 watters that there is a 'bridge rectifier', square box looking thing on the board. On George's 50 watt plexi there isnt such a thing. Whats the rub with the 'bridge rectifier' ?

[Tazin]

Marshall used what ever thay had on hand....Whether it was individual diodes or a self contained bridge rectifier.

[jnew]

The variac thing is interesting. Where once he may have used it for volume management, at some point he realized it's importance to his core tone. Because after all, you can't have 9 or 10 Marshall heads set up and talk about controlling volume by dropping the voltage, right? I know this is a bit off the topic but sometimes we think out loud.

[rgorke]

I think this is the front of that picture. Also, it looks like there is only 1 '68 100 watt amp. The second from bottom on left with the white knob. The others appear to have a cap behind the pre tubes.

[jnew]

It's the second from the bottom on the right, that has no cap behind the pre tubes. (or perhaps you were talking about the other photo from the rear?)

This front view shows the 10 Band EQ in the foreground and the 6 band taped to the 100 watt, 2nd from the bottom, on the left side with the stand up PT. The 50 watt that looks like a 68 (w/lay down PT) isn't plugged in and has no cab plugged to it either. Kind of wonder if this was all really being used or if it was just a ton of Marshall's Ed was accumulating on the tour and just set up for a reporter with a camera. Who knows.

[wjamflan]

Sorry, I meant to post the more complete pic...



Now you can see the back of the amp on the bottom right (from the back).

FWIW, these pics were probably taken pre-gig and that's why certain things aren't plugged in.

[rgorke]

It's the second from the bottom on the right, that has no cap behind the pre tubes. (or perhaps you were talking about the other photo from the rear?)

Yeah, the other photo from the back.

[Strat78]

I'll put this here instead of in David's variac thread.

where the hell do you come up with you quotes for your location in your profile? I need to come up with a good one.

Ha ha, heard that one is passing and couldn't resist. I really think we are looking at the VHI studio setup in those above pics. Plexifield mentioned that Ken Fisher said it was a 50w into a 100w. The variac is for the 100w head, no variac for the 50. One cab per head without exceeding the cones power handling. Daisy chaining with eq in front and possible between the chain. You see the mxr taped to one of the amps that is last in the chain in a later pic. The tone I get with this setup is similar to what I remember Ed's tone being like on December 2 1978 at Oakland.

So the 50 watter is the early '70's one that is still in a small headbox, but, has the standup PT ?

Yes, because the one with the standup PT (most likely a 1202-164), has the extra polarity switch. When the 50w was first pictured it still had the logo. Later you can identify the same 50w by the distinctive tears in the tolex. So this 50w head was probably a 71-72, Neikeel has said this too. Metal panels, three cans on top, open frame choke, 1201-164 PT and 784-139 OT, 33k/500 tone stack, 500k mix, probably a split cathode, no screen resistors ( )Perhaps someone could pipe in on this: Were the 1202-118 PT's ever mounted standing up?

[plexified]

As a side note , I found the 50 waters had actually less variance tonewise up to say 72 . Even up to the introduction of the circuit board would be a dividing line I would say . I use to use an alligator clip made of copper I got from Radio Shack that I would put a mylar blue chicklet .68 cap attached to . When I clipped that puppy on the second stage it was foooorrrgeettt about it . No distortion box or extra boost needed . It was definitely VH! all day long . Into a nice period correct cab . When I got my first Duncan Custom I was definitely on my neighbors radar then man . Wow . It was all full voltage . Full volume but a really solid unmistakable tone . I sold a few 50 waters , nice and clean for 3.5k . I always sent the cap clip with the amp and instructions for sure . BUT man o man those things roared . I even had a few Les Paul Juniors from 59 with baseball bat sized necks that just did VH all day long . When I saw the VH1 album picture out takes with Ed holding his I was confirmed he used that axe a lot too . It just sounded so right . I'm glad a lot of you guys can accept it now . Because , initially , it is hard to believe . The basketweave grille cloth does make a difference too . It confirmed for me at least , that the volume , really was not an issue with Ed . I have had so many times where I played the 50's , and had amazing tone with a band , but definitely did not have enough to hang with some drummers . Some times it was close , buuuuttttt , just needed more , you know? So in the end I kept the 100's . I always have had at least two hundred waters . I used the variac , but just to control the line voltage down to 110 . I have always measured crazy line voltage readings . Always saw around 125+ and was really surprised . So for me initially I was just controlling the voltage to keep the amp safe while powering up and playing . Later I dicked around with dropping the voltage . I found that actually monitoring the heaters to 6 volts flat was the best tone and safest for the amp actually . My 12 series plexis really didn't change much tone wise dropping the voltages . It did cut some overall volume at a point , but it really was not much . I was definitely happier with a hard hitting drummer with the 100 waters . The later 69 Plexi and metal panels were really noticeably louder . I mean really loud . With those big boys , I definitely needed to turn down to blend in with the band . I always liked a TS 808 or TS 9 and even a cheapo TS 5 tank when I played out to avoid stuff being stolen at gigs at times . The tank really slayed too . But Ken Fischer really had all that stuff so dialed in . Ken Dubman with the 50 slaved into the 100 was really the first I know of that was using the EVH slaved set up in the 80's. That man won the Marshall Bluesbreaker contest first time out with that rig as put up by guitar player magazine . And to boot Guitar Player and a guy named John Macintyre did an article about modding a Fender Bassmann head into what was so darn close to the Trainwreck Express . I think John called it a Bluesmaker . It definitely delivered the goods . I would love to buy that old mag from Guitar Player where he outlined the build . Its really a hidden gem . He is so under rated in his skills and again , another article of information under all of our noses that just got overlooked !

[jnew]

D. Scott, do you have a clip of the variac between the head and cab handy? I'd love to hear that if you have a clip on hand.

[Tazin]

Yes, because the one with the standup PT (most likely a 1202-164), has the extra polarity switch. When the 50w was first pictured it still had the logo. Later you can identify the same 50w by the distinctive tears in the tolex. So this 50w head was probably a 71-72, Neikeel has said this too. Metal panels, three cans on top, open frame choke, 1201-164 PT and 784-139 OT, 33k/500 tone stack, 500k mix, probably a split cathode, no screen resistors ( )Perhaps someone could pipe in on this: Were the 1202-118 PT's ever mounted standing up?

No, there is no 'standup' 1202-118 PT...That's basically what the 1202-164 was. The initial 1202-164 was basically the same as the 1202-118 except for its mounting style and the absence of any 5v leads for a tube rectifier circuit. The rectified B+ voltages produced by both units were the same initially.

[Strat78]

Yes, because the one with the standup PT (most likely a 1202-164), has the extra polarity switch. When the 50w was first pictured it still had the logo. Later you can identify the same 50w by the distinctive tears in the tolex. So this 50w head was probably a 71-72, Neikeel has said this too. Metal panels, three cans on top, open frame choke, 1201-164 PT and 784-139 OT, 33k/500 tone stack, 500k mix, probably a split cathode, no screen resistors ( )Perhaps someone could pipe in on this: Were the 1202-118 PT's ever mounted standing up?

No, there is no 'standup' 1202-118 PT...That's basically what the 1202-164 was. The initial 1202-164 was basically the same as the 1202-118 except for its mounting style and the absence of any 5v leads for a tube rectifier circuit. The rectified B+ voltages produced by both units were the same initially.

Thanks Tazin, that was a big help. Going by the Marstran's chart it looks like the 50w super lead, MKII and 1987 are vary similar circuit wise? sure there are differences, but are these supposed to signify specific differences that I'm not seeing?

[Tazin]

Basically, the circuit for the 50w model 1987 didn't really change from 1968 through early 1971. Same holds true for the 1986 (Bass) model.