Loving EH 6ca7 in my Rig!

[Sparky4444]

The more I hear the VH1 tone after hearing all the stuff we're doing to try and copy it, it is really noticeable how much more fuzz there is on VH1..I am more inclined to think there is an OD pedal somewhere in front of it, and not an EQ doing the work -- not necessarily to add the fuzz but to add the push --

...I would be curious to hear your tracks with the volume cranked all the way up on a distortion III but the gain low...it would give more mid's and gain...I think you're freakin really close man

what about the eq pedal and the echoplex pre both pushing the front end? driving the amp further into chaos? we know the power section is already full tilt. the db 'push' of the eq pedal and the 'non-linear' phase response of the ep-3?

i cain't do no distortion pedal hypothetical, man, it would be a shame!

...for my ears, the hair is front-end based..I guess my point is what is the difference from a purist's approach if an eq pedal or an OD pedal is doing the work?? They're both artificial to the chain...

...how many guys pushed a Marshall with a Boss SD-Overdrive?? tons..or a tube-screamer..tons...

..I think he's using some kind of OD pedal in front for VH1...I don't he is after, but I think he is for VH1...

...once I get my '68 DIY Plexi project done, I'll start getting into this deeper ...

[somethin'else]

...for my ears, the hair is front-end based..I guess my point is what is the difference from a purist's approach if an eq pedal or an OD pedal is doing the work?? They're both artificial to the chain...

That's a good point! But isn't there something like 'perceived gain' that happens when everything gets all crashing together?
That's different than sustain, now. That hair/gain on the front side is the point, right?
I dunno, I heard mention of it (perceived gain) somewhere, and it's some kind of thing that happens above what the setup is doing. ie, not in the chain, but a result of . . . some kinda munson effect?
I could be reaching.

I guess each piece you put in front's gonna impart something. But working from known variables to Ed's sound, a few have mentioned like a Dist+. . .

oh, but tons run Boss and ODs in front 'cause the amp's too damn loud! Or they're going for metal.

[Sparky4444]

oh, but tons run Boss and ODs in front 'cause the amp's too damn loud! Or they're going for metal.

...But isn't VH1 basically heavy metal for 1978?? It wasn't until after that Mesa Boogie distortion took things to the next level of gain...How many guitar players had that much growl in their sound by 1978?? Not many...it was mostly frappy fizzle, not growly mean goodness

...I say crank the crap out of the amp, and add that hair by shaping the signal with an OD box in front -- but only a dab of the OD box'es gain control..mostly crank the Volume of the OD pedal...that square-wave fuzz will come through the bit of gain knob on the OD pedal...

[fivecoyote]

...for my ears, the hair is front-end based..I guess my point is what is the difference from a purist's approach if an eq pedal or an OD pedal is doing the work?? They're both artificial to the chain...

Interesting. Still wonder how much MXR 6-band on VH1. That's a distortion box (one type of it) in all but name imo.

[efraser68]

...for my ears, the hair is front-end based..I guess my point is what is the difference from a purist's approach if an eq pedal or an OD pedal is doing the work?? They're both artificial to the chain...

Interesting. Still wonder how much MXR 6-band on VH1. That's a distortion box (one type of it) in all but name imo.

Agree 100%, here's a clip where I show how much gain can be added by slamming the front end of a 72 Bassman with a Boss GE-7:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxTrqWlN5Mk[/youtube]

[Sparky4444]

...for my ears, the hair is front-end based..I guess my point is what is the difference from a purist's approach if an eq pedal or an OD pedal is doing the work?? They're both artificial to the chain...

Interesting. Still wonder how much MXR 6-band on VH1. That's a distortion box (one type of it) in all but name imo.

Agree 100%, here's a clip where I show how much gain can be added by slamming the front end of a 72 Bassman with a Boss GE-7:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxTrqWlN5Mk[/youtube]

For me, it comes down to if the input signal is already distorted by the time it hits the amp jack...OD/distortion pedals do this whereas the eq pedal would be driving the snot out of that frequency range once the input signal gets into the pre-amp stages...in theory, you should be able to mod the preamp gain staging to mimic what an eq pedal would be doing...

...for me, I think in VH1, the signal is already clipping by the time the signal hit's the amp...but that's just my gut feeling on it...

[mapat]

Damn, that's smoking tone and playing!

It seems like all the guys that have got the VH I thing basically nailed are running EH 6ca7's in their amps. Are the ones in your amp NOS or current production tubes?

What kind of MXR phase 90 is that you're running? Vintage, script re-issue, or regular old block logo?

Also, I've been looking for a good delay pedal to run in the front of the amp for when I wanna do the Ed stuff with the heavy delay like Atomic Punk or even the Women in Love intro with the tap harmonics.

I take it from the sound of your clip that you'd recommend the Ibanez AD9?

[efraser68]

Damn, that's smoking tone and playing!

It seems like all the guys that have got the VH I thing basically nailed are running EH 6ca7's in their amps. Are the ones in your amp NOS or current production tubes?

What kind of MXR phase 90 is that you're running? Vintage, script re-issue, or regular old block logo?

Also, I've been looking for a good delay pedal to run in the front of the amp for when I wanna do the Ed stuff with the heavy delay like Atomic Punk or even the Women in Love intro with the tap harmonics.

I take it from the sound of your clip that you'd recommend the Ibanez AD9?

Thanks Mapat! Those EH 6ca7s are current production tubes and were biased by YMI5150? probably around 35ma. The MXR Phase 90 is the piece of s#%@ block logo version...would love to have a vintage script logo phase 90 and don't have the $350 they go for these days

The Ibanez AD-9 for me seems to get that warm, mild slap back sound in a compact size for my pedal board. It won't get lush delay repeats like a EP3 or a Roland RE-20, but it does this stuff just fine.

[cary chilton]

Nice sounds!. Ice Cream Man! I disagree about more mids and more gain totally...Do that and you lose the magic of the sound, attack etc More mids is ALL about VHII not VHI at all

[efraser68]

Thank you Cary

[Dave1992]

Wanna try the Eh 6ca7 in my 59 RI as well... I don't have to change some resistor value or am I wrong???

[T.J.Fuller]

the thing that just pops in my head when listening to these clips is ----

wow ... the simple chain / amp /guitar /playing is just voiced-perfectly for vh 1

have to agree with Cary's statement

seems that amp will get that percieved gain with a harder more aggressive attack

i'm sure a mxr eq /colorsound / microamp etc... might get things more in that ITO territory but, this sound great the way it is.

volume knob and attack can simulate a pedal, with the right amp setup

downloading this one !

[vanhalen5150]

Wanna try the Eh 6ca7 in my 59 RI as well... I don't have to change some resistor value or am I wrong???

Other than checking the bias you shouldn't have to do anything.

[jnew]

EH 6CA7's are the sh^%$t. I have them, Sylvannia's and old RCA 6CA7's and they're all pretty much the same awesome power tube. Very nice tone and playing Eric. Love the Bassman clip. There is no question the MXR 6 band was a player in Ed's rig for some stuff.

[dirtycooter]

Wow! Nice tones! And simple too. But its a mod 5 cascade?? Still its damn sweet. Yeah an e.q. can do wonders without sounding conspicuous. More of a natural boost that only boosts in certain areas which makes it even more unconspicuous. Totally know Ed dabbled with it fo sho. No flippin way he didn't when you listen to a good copy of eruption you can hear the hiss for breif second in a pause then it gets pulled down out of the way by who ever was running the board. Evidence right there. No where near as easy to hear on some b.s. mp3 with its subtlety losses, gotta have the original analog or good c.d. copy and its there bigger than shit.
Don't sweat the phaser man-whirlwind is the next best and same thing to my ears. Creamy good. Best new phaser out there. I don't have the phaser itch anymore anyway at all. Fuggettaboutit!