The ULTIMATE trick to achieve "Brown Sound"

[rgalpin]

Ralle's clips sound like early EVH.
This is because of Ralle's technique more than his amp.

It's in the hands...

And... every amp is different. Two amps with the exact same components will sound different - that's what makes this whole thing a little bit like golf. You never know exactly what your going to get until you swing - and as soon as you think you've got "it," you find a little something that needs adjustment. Endless entertainment!! Except with golf you don't get the added excitement of playing with high voltage. But then again, that's a similarity because both activities take "balls."

I copied the Ralle spec. I found that the 330 bypass going to V2A was just too much low end getting in there and eating up those beautiful mid colors.

I tried the shared cathode too. Same thing - using the 820/330 to V1 was letting too much low stuff into the signal early on in the amp and there was no way to revover what was lost - the lows just eat up the character and openness. It's hard to believe that Ed was using either one of these setups when I hear all the detail that he maintained even at super saturated levels. And I'm talking about Ed's rhythm tones more than his leads. It's easy to make a screaming lead tone - but getting the rhythm sounds to hang together at high saturation - that is the magic.

I switched back to split cathode. And replaced the 330 on V2A with a .68 and this is much more pleasing at high saturation settings to me.

[mightymike]

Interesting.

What kind of speakers did you use?

[rgalpin]

V30s

[Guest 3]

And that's actually one of the easiest tones of his to cop. Straight Marshall SL cranked with an MXR Phase 90 in front of it with the speed turned all the way down, and then just mute the strings with your left hand and rub the side of your right hand over the strings. No mods/tone tricks involved.

Jon

That's all it is folks, very impressive by the way! Crank those stock 68-69/70 SL's to 10 and your in instant EVH territory!

[flemingmras]

Well from what I've heard(most of it being on the net so I even question it's validity) Eddie's main Marshall was bone stock. That bit of info actually came from the book The History of Marshall. They happened to get a pic and I'm guessing they checked it out and verified that it's completely stock. Eddie claimed that Jose Arrendondo modded his heads...however I later heard that this was just a ploy to drum up business for Jose since Jose and Eddie were good friends.

Eddie has always provided very misleading info on his rig. He's been quoted saying he ran the amp on a variac at 90 volts while he's also been quoted saying he ran it at full bore 140 volts(most 120VAC Variacs actually go up to 140) and watched the tubes melt. I also have read an interview where the interviewer asked if the variac was hooked up to the amps OUTPUT, and Eddie answered "Yes". Since Eddie's intent with the Variac was in fact to reduce the actual volume of the amp, it would make much more sense to use the Variac on the amp's output than it would to use it on the mains, in effect using it as a poor man's power soak. But who the hell knows what he was really doing?

Now back to the amp. From what I've read from a post from ******, based on the values of different components that were in the head, it sounds to me like Marshall built it as a Frankenstein head, making it a mix between a Super Lead and a Super Bass. That was probably not their intent...at the time(67/68 ) there was some kind of transition period where I think Marshall was undergoing some kind of change around that time(can't remember what the change was but...), but that head was probably one of a few that they probably just slapped together with whatever parts they had available at the time. Things like the 470K mixer resistors...his had the bypass cap across the mixer resistor on the bright channel(Super Lead spec) while the slope resistor in the tone stack was a 56K(Super Bass spec).

It's hard to really know what went on in Eddie's amp uless you actually talk to one of his techs. Cause Eddie ain't gonna reveal his secrets unfortunately.

Jon

[Billy Batz]

Even Alex gets in on that act. Did anyone ever hear the one were the drum intro to Hot For Teacher was supposedly a recording of the exhaust from his bike?

[NY Chief]

Cause Eddie ain't gonna reveal his secrets unfortunately.

Jon

I wonder just how much he really knows about the inside of his amp. How many guitar players have you played that you can discuss mallories vs sozo's or CC vs CF resistors?

Like Geotge says in his PTP board instructions..."Congratulations. You now know more about your amp than most of your guitar heroes"!

[flemingmras]

The Zepplin clip was ok, and so was the atomic punk.
Sound like a Marshall nothing special.
I wouldn't use those clips to put anyone down.
I don't think Eddie, or Jimmy will be beating your down
to find your tone secrets. Not impressed.

Yeah well, at least I'm actually out there making music with MY tone rather than sitting on my ass at home trying to cop someone else's tone all pissed off because my musical career didn't take off...and on top of that not having the bawls to identify myself on this board. And personally I really don't need your fucking acceptance to make me feel reassured that my tone kicks ass. It's no one else's tone...it's MY tone and I could give two fucks less about what you think about it.

Everyone has their own opinion and EVH's tone in my opinion is the most overrated tone in the book. It's definitely a good tone...just very overrated. But rather than sit around and try to cop other people's tones, I came up with my own and if my tone sounds like anyone else's tone, it just happens that way, I don't plan for it to. But IF I was in fact trying to cop someone's tone, I'd focus more on the technique than I would on the gear anyway. Pretty much, any old Marshall will get you damn close to all the hard rock tones out there(hell that's what the majority of them were using)...so once you have an old Marshall, focus on your technique.

Jon

[rgalpin]

i think The ULTIMATE trick to achieve "Brown Sound" has something to do with a taco bell drive-thru at 4am.

i always wondered why he called it the brown sound. all the colors you hear shrieking out the worn grooves of yer now antiquated VH1 vinyl are anything but brown - that faint swirl of the phase 90 splits the tone of the paf wide open so we can peak inside and see the musical volcano of fury and fire - there's a spot in the solo of "ice cream man" where there's like a quarter note of just the open strings ringing while he sets up the next blistering onslaught and it sounds like the amp is gasping for life and ed's got his foot firmly on it's neck - it's the freaking color of fury man - it's crazy - he could have thrown the guitar across the room and it would have been some beautiful explosion of color washed in an amazing cloud of reverb - but "brown?" that's not the word i would use to describe it.

it seems hilarious to then pick that sound apart 25 years after the fact and say, "hmmm... maybe if i use 1.1K instead of 820, THEN i'll have it!!"

i'm laughing at myself - because that IS exactly what i'm thinking. when i tried the shared cathode i used the existing 820/330 from V1A - but i just read a spec where the shared cathode values may have been 820(1.1K)/.68 - a ha!! this would filter out lots more lows than the 330 - as a matter of fact... this just might be THE s e c r e t ! !

[Billy Batz]

Like Geotge says in his PTP board instructions..."Congratulations. You now know more about your amp than most of your guitar heroes"!

lol. I never saw that. Whose more obsessive then Eric Johnson yet when you hear him talk about something like why he prefers 68's to 69's he definitely doesnt know what he's talking about.He obviously prefers ealry 68s and not the '69 circuit' but he probably doesnt know split from shared.

Ive read a few funny posts were people were arguing about that Hendrix JTM100 amp. People were like 'why would he do this and he said this why would he do that'. Well he didnt do shit. He said to his tech 'I want something a little fatter' and the tech took it upon hmself to do this and that.

[mightymike]

I just bought some Mil Spec Allen Bradley 1.1k and 1k 1/2 watt Allen Bradley CC for just that purpose.

[Billy Batz]

i think The ULTIMATE trick to achieve "Brown Sound" has something to do with a taco bell drive-thru at 4am.

i always wondered why he called it the brown sound. all the colors you hear shrieking out the worn grooves of yer now antiquated VH1 vinyl are anything but brown - that faint swirl of the phase 90 splits the tone of the paf wide open so we can peak inside and see the musical volcano of fury and fire - there's a spot in the solo of "ice cream man" where there's like a quarter note of just the open strings ringing while he sets up the next blistering onslaught and it sounds like the amp is gasping for life and ed's got his foot firmly on it's neck - it's the freaking color of fury man - it's crazy - he could have thrown the guitar across the room and it would have been some beautiful explosion of color washed in an amazing cloud of reverb - but "brown?" that's not the word i would use to describe it.

it seems hilarious to then pick that sound apart 25 years after the fact and say, "hmmm... maybe if i use 1.1K instead of 820, THEN i'll have it!!"

i'm laughing at myself - because that IS exactly what i'm thinking. when i tried the shared cathode i used the existing 820/330 from V1A - but i just read a spec where the shared cathode values may have been 820(1.1K)/.68 - a ha!! this would filter out lots more lows than the 330 - as a matter of fact... this just might be THE s e c r e t ! !

The way I understood it teh brown sound was coined about Alex's snare sound or something like that. When it was first used it had nothing to do with guitar it was justa general term they were using to say something is brown. If thats true maybe he used it in an interview by accident and it caught on. I wonder if people would like it as much if it was called the pink sound.

[flemingmras]

Actually I believe Eric Clapton was the first to coin the term "brown sound". Of course...Clapton was one of EVH's main influences so this could have something to do with it.

Jon

[mightymike]

I don't care what anyone thinks. I think any decent 100watt collection would be incomplete without 12000 series EVH style Plexi, a JTM 45/100, and a 69 spec.

I don't know why people get so worked up when they see people
going after this tone. So what if someone wants to be obsessed with recreating Eddie's Tone. There's worse things a person could be. Like Jeffrey Dalmer.

[NY Chief]

Actually I believe Eric Clapton was the first to coin the term "brown sound". Of course...Clapton was one of EVH's main influences so this could have something to do with it.

Jon

Do you mean the "woman tone"? That's what Clapton called in the (old)Cream movie.