ITO Tones rockstah posted

[vanhalen5150]

This talk of spectrum, and whether or not the JBL's were actually used is interesting. One of the recent old interveiews someone posted (leadguy?), Ed stated that live he stacked his cabs but only used the bottom ones because of the ear level noise on stage. I've seen at least 3 pics and various video clips were those JBL's seem to always be on the bottom. They may not be mic'd for the PA but you would definately be hearing them.
So perhaps, the celests were mic'd in close and the JBL's out towards the cone edge. Were these the same JBL's that were sought after by bass players, and if so why?

[Good Guest]

Goodguest, cool! Is your MXR mod 1.266? I noticed on these that that varies a bit 1.226, 1.255 1.266 ... Have you check any more clips for more variations?

Sorry is blackpageproductions+rwtdcelestion the Dave F clip?



Happy New Year guys!

Mod is 1.25 ..but what you are seeing on the spectrums is the 1.2X highlighted and just looking at the mouse changes it from 1.22all the way to 1.29...it's 1.2Khz..that's the important thing...in all the vh1 clips there is a massive boost@16khz ....that's the air and it's boosted like 30db or more just to be significant. Now that is a studio trick.
Yep Dave F clip if talking to me

And a happy new year to you too

[cary chilton]

cool, 16K would be mixing for sure

[Mats A]

I know this is old but so from what i get out of this is that maybe there was no MXREq. Maybe it was the JBL speakers and Eddies hands and guitar? Wonder if you can really get a guitar tone by looking at frequenzie curves like these. There is much to a guitar tone. Also all Eddies tones is recorded and colored in some way by something. You really don´t know how it sounded in front of his cab. The Iso tracks sounds quite different from the sound on the VHI record

[Tone Slinger]

Eddie had a very specific 'feel' to his sound (it was articulate, BUT, it was softer, like a 'Metal Marshmellow' or something ).

He had a certain amount of gain (around what a wound up 2 gain stager produces).

He had a very specific eq to his sound.

Plugged into the upper left (bright/hi input) on a plexi with Ed's spec (stock), and simply DIMING it with a slight voltage reduction, there is NO WAY he used a jbl (cause a stock 1959's bright input is too thin/bright to begin with, a jbl would make that WORSE).

Eddie had to have been using a eq box to get at that sound (through a 'stock' plexi that is). With the eq alteration, then a jbl mixed with a 25 watt celestion is feasable.

Eddie had a fairly 'specific' amp/effects set-up it seems.

Other builders/tweakers/modders, etc, deviate from the 'stock' plexi spec to more accurately approximate Ed's early tone.

Obviously the FOUNDATION of Ed's tone is that of a 2 gain stage (1987/1959) circuit ( into a 4X12 25 watt speakers), but taking into account that this set up alone is TOO thin (br. ch) and biting, it seems odd that people continue to try and squeeze Ed's '77/'78 tone out of it. Ed's tone was warmer and never as bright and biting as a stock plexi. Add to that a ash strat with vintage trem., hb'er, etc and things can really get too bright and cutting.

I'm leaning towards Ed as 'taming' his amps a bit MORE than previously thought (via variac). Then, that 6 band brought things back up (volume, tone,punch).

Other builders/modders can approximate that 'sag', warmth and width in different ways (shared cathode, blended channels, cathode values, etc, etc), but on a stock plexi, I havent heard it clearly ('77/'78 era Ed-tone).

I'm thinking the variac and the MXR 6 band were the key ingredients (beyond the said foundation of a Plexi top and 4x12 25 watt loaded cab).

[dirtycooter]

I agree on the e.q. as they really can be subtle in how they drive an amps input. Its boosting a smaller part of the frequencies available as opposed to the wide and broad methods of boost or output from a pickup. The gain is added to a small portion and not the entire signal. It sneaks in, gooses the sweet spot, and leaves the rest alone for naturalness.
Again I don't buy into the JBL theory. I cannot stress this enough here. Those two iso clips labeled as such that were floatin around are attainable on a simple single greenback easy. Its 2 different mic positions on a greeny to my ears. Its spikey bright in the center and wooly subdued on the outter parts of the actual paper cone with less bite. One needs to A/B 2 57's placed in these areas and listen to each and I think you'll be suprised at what you find between these positions and what happens. Huge difference in brightness.
I think if your able-start mic dead center and record snippets as you move 1" each time outward toward the suspension rib. All kinds of colors and treble changes just moving the mic laterally across the speaker face.
I truly believe its two mics on a greeny and they are carefully blended-one for body and girth and one for some nice accurate detail. Remember to play with the phase of the mics between the two when blending as cool shit happens. Things kinda get more full and 3D sounding.
If the duller mic thats not centered is givin you a case of the ass start pullin it out away and back some for a bigger picture hittin the mic. Your center mic will carry the majority of the sound-use a much lower level on the second mic.
Its flippin hours of discovery fun And that second mic may very well have been something other than a 57 keep in mind.
Recording is a skill that requires some experimentation and keen ears. Kinda like a first date-its dark, you can't see, but you know its down there someplace

[rgalpin]

Sounds good Mark. Is this your *stock* or cascaded amp? What exactly has been done to the MXR 6 band?

thanks Eric! its my stock 78 metaface, superlead specs.
the mod: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... D=10034480 ( 6th post down)

Eyes popped.
Jaw dropped.




EPIC

[rgorke]

Yeah, no doubt!!!!

Killer!!!

[Mats A]

I´ve red they took Eddies guitar signal and put it through a speaker in the echo/reverb room at Sunset Sound. I don´t remember the name of that speaker. It could have been Lansing or something. So according to this it´s real room reverb and no effect. It´s almost impossible to recreate a recorded tone that have gone through a lot of stuff like a mixing desk mics and so on just with an amp and a cab. On the bootleg Midnight Cash from i guess late 77 (Seems VHI was recorded but not released) Eddie has got a tone that sounds a lot like on the first album but beefier.