Which amps have that squish/sag quality?

bognermatchless · Post by **bognermatchless** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:19 pm

Is it just the 12000 series amps with a variac?

I don't hear it in JCM 800's

Splawn Quick Rod has a B+ voltage option now but I have no idea what that sounds like.

EVH 50 watt? I know some of you guys here like them.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:31 am

You have the Mojave PeaceMaker that Mark & Ben worked on. That amp should give you what you are looking for, and,its a PTP which is SO easy to work on. Just mess with the filtering some, try different values. Yes, a variac or switchable B+ will give the tone a bit of that sag,giving the tone a bit of a different feel. JCM 800's ( 1959, 1987,2203 & 2204 models,not so much the 2210 & 2205) are EXCELLENT platforms for this. The Splawn amps, regardless of the B+,are HIGHLY filtered,cause his amps are dialed in for massive amounts of preamp gain, so I dont think the feel will be where you want it.

The Bray 45/50 has a choice of tube or solid state rectifier,via a toggle. I've heard LOTS of great stuff about how the tube rectified option has that 'sag, squish and feel'

Still,the Mojave you have is EXCELLENT, as it is a perfect platform (as are the Metro builds) to get to anywhere you need, tone/feel-wise

bognermatchless · Post by **bognermatchless** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:15 am

That amp has been sold. I felt like it got stiffer the more you turned it up.

Strat78 · Post by **Strat78** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:40 pm

I have a 12xxx, cascaded with the lar/mar, there is that nice squishy, warm and fuzzy bliss when the ppimv is under 2 but creeping up beyond that it is so insanely loud that for me I get a little sheepish when playing. But bringing up the volume via an attenuator from a dimed stock 12xxx is always a joy and emboldens me. Maybe it's just in the nature of a ppimv that there is a cold hard zone past 3, because the power section retains so much head room before the PT starts to sag when dimed. But to dime a ppimv would require an attenuator, so why bother with the ppimv in the first place. What kind of irons were in that Mojave? You should either build a 50w plexi spec or 12xxx and dial in the squish to your hearts content, I got squish coming out my ass over here, it's firming things up that is the challenge, did I just say that.

JimiJames · Post by **JimiJames** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:26 pm

_
...or a PPIMV bypass

SDM®

bognermatchless · Post by **bognermatchless** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:32 pm

It had a dagnall OT and a Mercury Magnetics power tranny.

Don't get me wrong, I really really really enjoyed the tone when the master was below 2 but like you said, anything above that made it stiff and I did not like that.

I'm thinking the Bray 4550 would be a great choice, but that has a master as well. If this is just a master volume thing than I probably wouldn't enjoy that either with the master above 2 or 3.

Best bet would be to get an amp without a master volume and use an attenuator as a master volume, right? I just don't know what amps out on the market would be suitable for that. Not too many 12000 series high quality clones out their except for the Metro, but I never buy amps brand new - I always buy used and Metro's never come up for sale. I'm cheap

efraser68 · Post by **efraser68** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:38 pm

Well there's a 50 watt 68 spec AND a 16 THD Hotplate in the Member's Classifieds...

jnew · Post by **jnew** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:20 am

Yeah, variac'd plexi circuit with the amp at 8 ohms into a 16ohm cab will make the power section saturate real nice. Basically a significant reduction in headroom. Throw in low filtering and squish should be oozing. And like mentioned above, a tube rectifier will even loosen it up more. All my latest clips are with a GZ-34 tube rectifier. Love it.

Tone Slinger · Post by **Tone Slinger** » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:42 am

A ppimv on an amp (the lar/mar type) is out of the circuit on 10. To have one (ppimv) allows super low volume with great tone, for home use, as well as varible volume levels.I never encountered a problem with mine set over 2, but still, you could dime the PPIMV and use an attenuator if you decide to. Best of both worlds is a dual voltage tranny and a ppimv on a Plexi. My 12xxx and the Suhr Sl-68 were/are like that.

plexified · Post by **plexified** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:45 pm

I would say that the ones with the engineered front end power rail . The valve is softer and the diode is harder or faster without as much dynamics . Use resistance in the power rail to control your voltages or even a diode to keep the prefered position from being pulled down voltage wise . The wind in the power transformer is the key here . Big iron is big supply . Smaller the supply here or ability to provide large power demand instantaniously is the description. You can get around this , however in many ways with quality grid supressors on the power tube power supply rail and supression teqchniqeus . The choke can really slow down things with the right design and a resistor in its place is a very good option to tailor the sag . A big Ampeg V4 sounds perfect to me but distorts like poo . But that would be my vote , plus its got a cool tone control section .

herbvis · Post by **herbvis** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:02 pm

I had a mesa boogie stiletto Deuce II. They have a switch for bold (diode rectifier) or spongy(tube rectifier). I played in spongy mode most of the time, nice squish. Great amp!

plexified · Post by **plexified** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:00 pm

its too bad some other folks didn't jump on this one . The supply rail is the firs most critical design component. their is so much good stuff to play with you guys have been in a coma . COMA . Its sad . So take tube rectification with very small wire and run the gammet to a solid state diode system with a large diameter wire for a range . play well with one another ....

rdodson · Post by **rdodson** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:40 am

The Bogner Ecstasy is squishy/saggy. That is that amp's calling card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3AP9KJ6OHA

awangotango · Post by **awangotango** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:50 pm

the sag is not just from the amp. It's from the old speakers being pummeled as well. But regarding the amp, you want one that is poorly designed and uses cheap components. in other words an old marshall. The transformers were underdesigned for the application once the amp is cranked and that is why it sags. the old tubes help as well. Once they are pushed they sound sweet whereas modern tubes don't generally speaking. it's not the variac imo or one ingrediant. Amp's today are build for reliability and low recall issues. Great guitar rigs of yesteryear often blew up right after they were sounding their best.

the biggest factor though is the sag from your eardrums. Once the volume gets past a certain level. the hairs in your ear give up and they literally smear and sag the sound. It's a fact. Without the high volume you'll never really experience 'that sound'.

ol mark kendall said he sacrificed an amp or two during the recording of this album. It's a subtle thing but you never hear this kind of tone nowadays. What happened to sound engineers these days? baby'ing their gear. If you aren't going through tubes and tranny's and speakers, you ain't doin' it right !
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcH2swvq7f0[/youtube]

Sudds · Post by **Sudds** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:18 pm

Ditto on the Mesa Stiletto. I had one of those for a while, sounded cool in the 'spongy' setting. With the tube rectifier I found it too much in the 'sag' department.
I've got a 50w Silver Jubilee head at the moment, lots of spank n doink on tap

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Which amps have that squish/sag quality?

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