Surprising Findings

[mightymike]

First off I was able to demod this dual tap 470/430v 10000 series build.

rps20131111_082448.jpg (10.31 KiB) Viewed 1293 times

http://forum.metroamp.com/download/file.php?id=16941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I took out the 3 position switch, relocated the hidden 330uf v2 cap under the board to the top, and removed the extra black power board cap, then put in Sylvania 12ax7wa tubes in the pre, and RUBY BRST big bottles. My favortie amp now. It is the C errem spec of the EVH amp, and works very well with his trannys

The amp is now back to its former glory, the Sylvanias really make a huge difference. We put them on the tester and they are not as gainy as the Mullard 12ax7 with KB/DA codes, but sounded way better.

Then we tried ( Me and my Friend Joe up at Timbre Amps) the Sylvanias in an Atomica.. Same huge tonal improvement. Of all the higher gain amps out there, I really liked that Atomica. The China pre amp tubes sucked. I'm surprised it sounded decent with them.

All testing was run through a 4x12 Cab with old Blackbacks.

These were tested through my Darkburst equiped HM Strat. Then I took out the Darkburst and tried a Black Belt 2. I thought for sure the heavens would open up and this would be the dream pickup. I had been waiting at least a month to install it. You know what? It sounded almost exactly like the Darkburst, but the Darburst had more definition on the lows and mids. The BB2 was slightly mushy with the 10000 in lows and mids. Both sounded great through the Atomica though. I'm sure the Atomica has tihhter filtering. . Pratically identicle. No mid and low mushy on the Atomica with the BB2. Darkburst measured 8.5k/A5. Blackbelt 2 is 8.8k/A5..... The Black Belt 2 had a better split coil tone than the Darkburst which sounded like a kick ass Strat pickup on that setting. Both Darburst and Blackbelt 2 were wired with red and white together going to switch.. The BB2 came with the black and ground twisted together instead of green and ground like my DB. I tried it with the Black/Ground and it sounded off so I wired it like the DB

Then I tried a Super Distortion in the guitar through both amps, and arguably liked it's humbucker tone as good as the Darkburst. It was Surpisingly articulate, and sounded closer to a PAF type tone than a JB like in my other Swamp Ash guitar.That JB Pickup is more in your face compressed and tight but cleans up nice.
The Super Distortion Split coil tone tone sounded like ass, but I had the black and white together instead of the red and white. Wonder if that was the difference.

We also tried the above pickups through a 3 voice prototype based of a Dumble Clone. The three voices are Twin Reverb, Overdrive Special, Plexi. The Darburst was more articulate than the BB, and the Super Distortion sounded like mud through it. Horrible. I played that amp last time I visited Joe, and didn't have the heart to say I didn't like it. But that was through shitty speakers with open back. Through my black back cap it was fucking amazing. Even the Twin Reverb Channel. Beautiful and warm. I told him he needs to build a 2x12 closed back with Scumbacks. It could handle a 100 watter.

I wish I had more time to try more things. We did all this the night before last drinking coffee from 6pm until 1am until I couldn't keep our eyes open. Then came back at 9am and worked till noon yesterday

Things I would have tried if I had the parts and time:
A Dual F&T50/50 uf or dual 32uf cap that I could have replaced my single 32uf TAD v3 cap. I bet that would have tightened up the BB lows and mids.

There was another amp there that I wanted to work on as well. It was a Friedman modded Metro 10000. It had the Kitchen sink mod, and was loaded with mustards. Something was off with that amp, and I didn't get a chance to open her up. I suspect that the seller put shit tubes in before shipping. It also had a bent OT that needs a pipe wrench bending back treatment after the amp had been manhandled by UPS.

There's no way an amp built by those 2 would sound like that unless something happened. Looking forward to making it right next time I'm there...

All in all it was a great trip up to Elk Grove, Ca... I got to add some new tones to my memory bank. So glad my 10000 is back to it's full glory and whisper quiet.

Oh an another thing. I got to try an Alex Atenuator... That thing was perfect. Incredible tone a build quality. I highly recommend.

[JimiJames]

Vicious !
lotta' stuff goin' on !
I like how you're approaching the Tone shaping areas. Like to be in the same room for that when you have the parts and time! Maybe invite my friends Jack & Stella I'd like to A/B the HM/DB setup but I currently have all Maple necks....

What's already on the mainboard, there? Another TAD dual 16 or 32 ? PEC & Alpha pots there?
Is that an axial piggybacked on the smaller ones? Hows that used ? was a difference being made up there ?

Building a 2x12 closed back with Scumbacks that could handle a 100 watter is a great suggestion and a task within itself.
After a couple of years of trial & error and almost giving up, I sent Jim two blown Blackback's and after telling him what quest I've been on, he recommended them re-coned to 65 watters...
I wanted to retain the tones & sounds of a 4x12 downsized to a 2x12, with little sacrifice in overall tone. Worked perfect !
...but, also to have a cab design to handle some the the freq's. So, I chose a ¼ cab or top half of an 1960A cab opposed to the 1918 or 1936 style cabs. Marshall does make an over-sized 2x12 20wt/15Ω GB loaded that was designed for Keyboards, but those are expensive and hard to find all original & in good shape. A very desirable & versatile cab IMO.

For DiMarzio's; B&W are together and Grn is gnd with Red hot for full series humbucker mode, so you're good there.
Here are the color codes for the North & South bobbin's utilizing Series/Cancel/Parallel. Easily done with ears and a meter of course.

[mightymike]

That black piggy backed 32uf TAD cap on the power board, and the switch on the back is what I took out. There were three settings. One setting added a hidden 330uf cap under the board across the v2a cathode and added the additional the piggy backed 32uf in Parralell to the PI cap (v3 cap) for extra tightness when that 330uf boost cap was added. Another settings was like a 8 can, but with the boost, the other was no boost and just 8 can.

I wish I couod have stayed for another day of testing/tasting.

You, me, and Mark (Harddriver) should have a solder session next time I'm in Chicago.

[jnew]

Awesome report Mike.

[Strat78]

There are still some great pics of your 10000 in the Debate on Edie's Plexi thread. Do you have a ceramic Erie 100pf for the fizzy cap? There is the occasional hype about the BB2 and I've been on the verge of grabbing one for several years, yet I've never heard a clip that was all that intriguing. The Super Distortion always comes through. Nothing like the old black backs for these purposes.

[vanhalen5150]

I have a BB2 in right now. Sounds similar to the Darkburst. The thing I don't like is it gets dull sounding with volume roll off. Maybe I need a new pot. Its been soldered and desoldered about 30 times in the last few years.

[jnew]

I have a BB2 in right now. Sounds similar to the Darkburst. The thing I don't like is it gets dull sounding with volume roll off. Maybe I need a new pot. Its been soldered and desoldered about 30 times in the last few years.

Just my opinion but I think the ceramic mag PU's play a key role in that tone when the volume is rolled off.

[mightymike]

I had a 100pf silver mica.. I was playing attenuated with the alex. So maybe that has something to do with it.

I found those clearer pics from what this amp looked like before I removed the mods.
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php? ... np&thumb=6
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php? ... n8&thumb=6
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php? ... r7&thumb=6
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php? ... la&thumb=6