Reverb help.

[jnew]

So as we all know, one very cool benefit to slaving is chiming in a nice, bad ass reverb between the two heads. a la post production effect. So when I first tried it, I bought a Behringer Digital Reverb pedal on the cheap. Though it's reverb quality is actually pretty amazing for the price, there's something that's not entirely true about the "Mix" knob. When the pedal is bypassed, the dry tone is present and punchy. But when the pedal is on and you set your mix knob, it seems to take away from the direct signal when adding more reverb effects. Even if the mix is dialed to a minimal reverb effect, something seems to drop out from the direct signal. Is this the area where higher end rack units work better in that they have their direct and mix knobs separate?

[vh junkie]

Not sure, but I have to wonder if it is because the pedal is expecting instrument level signal OR there is some sort of impedance mismatch going on? If we are going to use "line" outs for slaving we should be using effects that can handle "line" level signals, not "instrument" level. Some effect can probably handle either better than others. Some will have instrument/line level switches. Kevin seems to be getting good results using pedals though?

Does the pedal behave better if it is in between a guitar(instrument) and regular guitar amp input? When you are using the slaving setup what is driving the pedal (what size pot?)?

[jnew]

It'd be the 250K pot in in the lIne out box. But I'm going to put a 2K resistor on the input of the Jensen and replace the 150K with a 50K soon and see how that works out. Meanwhile, I'm liking reverb and also intend on a quality reverb unit to replace the Behringer. There are so many reverbs out there. Holy shit. Lexicon, Digitech, old analog stuff, new digital stuff, etc. Sheesh!

[dirtycooter]

If the dry tone suffers it could be you have latency phase issues. It maybe all digital dry and effect in the pedal. But if you get 100% wet with the mix knob up that issue should disappear. Always keep any dry in an effect cab totally analog.
And yes you maybe overdriving the converters/input. Turn the "lineout level" down goin into the pedal and jack up the second slave amp volume to get the disparity of mix right.
I do know I can use a echo park just fine with my line out. No other things but the lineout-pedal-slave amp and it doean't distort.
Another thing too
If you are tapping a line out off a cranked maxed out amp the level of the line gets equally as hot in relatio -so you may just have to barely crack on the line out so you don't overdrive the input of the pedal.
Rack gear is nice because they have meters and input trim controls generally to help match up along with an output control at timez too.My gforce can pump out +22dB easy. unity is 0dB whether itz a -10 or +4 line level. 0 is still 0 though. I KNOW.... its co fusing as hell. But the pedal should be able to handle -10 and be able to pass a 0dB unity signal no problem without freakin out. This is where eventide factor pedals got it down. With the Guitar level setting though you could hear the level matching buffers vs the line level setting was more clear and uncolored. The buffer adds so ever the slightest treble peak to the over all tone.

[vanhalen5150]

If you can hear the signal from your line out box with headphones, it's above instrument level. Many overdrive and distortion pedal suck because the signal is too much. Try plugging headphones into a distortion pedal and you'll see. Getting that minimal instrument level and maintaining good sound is very difficult. I've been using the usually line out box we all know, into a Radial X amp. Much better sound.

[jnew]

OK, well, I just bought this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141135180003" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I should be able to get solid levels on the dry tone (and even see those levels with the LED's), control those level with the separate in's and out's, and then just add to that at will with what looks like lots and lots of options. Ones I can program too, If I so choose. $90 shipped was hard to pass up.

[dirtycooter]

Still you shoulda been able to use the pedal-most pedals and especially delays and verbs are generally made to interface into a line level fx loop as many place those fx there. My mxr chorus however is one pedal that don't like line level at all but its also all analog. Hopefully this new box will work out for you too.
I have pics of my lineout box on here someplace-but the transformer type is a mystery.
a good loop acts just like a mixers auxillary send/return, be it a line out box with a send level adjustment to effect to power amp or a fx loop with send and return level controls.
The input and output gain adjustments on the rack boxes help interface in a loop that is just a one predetermined set send and return level-you can match up on the fx box's in/out levels. Pedals though need external input trim and sometimes a little return gain/boost to get its output up there loud enough.
Most mixers have aux loops with send and return level controls. The input gains on the desktop mixers channels can let you feed everything a weak signal-a gforce can be opened up on its own input trim to let more signal in while the same level doesn't overdrive a pedal next to it-using the channel input gains on the mixer (which is super clean gain) can make both come out of the mixer outputs sounding equal in volumeby boosting up the pedal output on its input channel-balancing the levels so they are all at or very near 0dB at the mixer output.

[jnew]

Awesome info there cooter. I enjoy learning this stuff and this little segment of my journey is teaching me well. I may eventually try the W/D set up as I do have another cab but I'd need a stereo power amp which right now I do not have. Only 2 plexi's. One of course modded for Pwr Amp only. The reverb is the only effect that I'm using between the heads so I'm sure I can make this new rack verb unit work just fine. Yes, the pedal did work just fine as well, once I set the transformer line out box and used the volume pot on the Power amp to control volume but, some programmable reverbs with level controls can only offer more options and flexibility and perhaps better quality as nuances and parameters can be tweaked. Namely pre-delay. That's one I sure miss with the pedal. No options there and I think it's a must for a good VH type reverb.

[dirtycooter]

A good primer on mixers and stuff like that can be found at mackie's website. Some of the manuals were really written pretty cool with some party dude humor actually thrown in. Helped me alot years ago when I started messin with mixers on the outboard gear end. They have a cool way of explaining line level, the difference between the types like +4dB and -10, weaker mic input signals, etc etc and how they can all be summed up and trimmed up or down to be at that 0dB optimum mark.
Predelay on a truly good reverb is where its at. Its the subtle later blooming effect and sustaining factor it can add thats just so immense sounding and good.

[jnew]

Good stuff. I'll poke around that website some.

I had Audacity for a while (before I got my new Mac) and in the reverb settings, there were so damn many things you could monkey with. I couldn't believe all the subtle nuances but after an hour of figuring out all, what was what, I got a good reverb sound dialed. That pre-delay thing was awesome because it seemed to keep your amp's dry tone so focused and authentic, but then blew it up to that nice VHI, bigness. Hard to describe but I just woke up and haven't had my red bull yet.